Star Trek Secret Revealed!!! (and spoilers about new film)

Except for the little matter of his home planet being destroyed and 99.99 percent of his people murdered. Can you imagine Jim Kirk being okay with some new timeline where Earth and most of humanity is wiped out, but hey, the federation still has cool ships!?! I didn't think so, and neither can I imagine Spock being that way.

Actually, he tried to influence the future of the mirror universe.

Spock had no problem using the Guardian to get rid of that Andorian first officer of the Enterprise in the one animated episode that was declared to be canon ...

And Shatner got the rights to write about that in his Trek books.

Kirk altered the present which influenced the future.

You may have an

Depends on the nature of the mirror, where it's placed, etc.

If it's like a mirrored disco ball, you see a whole bunch.

If it's a mirror placed across from another mirror, you can get the infinite mirror effect, like you can see if you scroll near the bottom of the following website:

http://www.mustbeart.com/photo/2002-11-10-sstrip/index.html

Someone already mentioned "Parallels" from TNG. That seems to conclusively establish that there's a near-infinite splitting of universes based on all sorts of events, somehow co-existing with each other.

Well thats mainly because TNG wanted to outdo TOS.

Yes, I've seen these eps. But there seems to be confusion between timelines and universes. Does the timetraveler go back to another universe or the one he left? Some say that the timeline that is left continues with no change even though someone has gone back.

So whats the deal?

Oh and I think TNG was largely CRAP.

Getting rid of the Andorian was part of the process of FIXING the timeline.

Fixing it to their preference.

The timeline with the Andorian officer was actually the original timeline, and all of TOS that we knew was the altered one, because it required future-Spock to save young-Spock for it to exist.

Hmm...given that, and that both TOS and JJTrek diverge off of the period of Spock's childhood...neither is the "prime", timeline.

Except that they had gone back and altered something when they first went into the Guardian, prior to the start of the episode. Remember, the episode starts with Kirk and Spock coming out of the Guardian and nobody knowing who Spock was. This then necessitates Spock going back into the Guardian to fix things.

Right. And that would be different than old Spock going through the Guardian to "fix" the JJ timeline how?

Well, if he goes back and throws JJ into the sarlacc pit, that would be awesome!

I disagree. They acted upon the knowledge they had at the time. Spock is older and wiser and more experienced now and he's not bound to act in his old age as he did in his relative youth.

finding a way to save Vulcan does not necessarily imply re-setting the entire timeline (in fact, Spock can't be certain it WAS the Nero incursion which created this timeline and not First Contact...if he even knows about the events of FC)

That may very well be. Does not mean he would not try to at least save Vulcan though.

Older and wiser and perfectly at peace with the murder of billions of Vulcans? Nope, not buying it.

My impression based both on Star Trek and science fiction as a whole is that parallel/mirror universes are just closely related but still somewhat different universes to our own. There are more than just two timelines in Star Trek, but the ones that are "one step away" from ours are referred to as parallel or mirror. There are infinitely many parallel universes because there are infinitely many outcomes of every moment throughout the universe, and the farther we diverge from our own universe the more different things can get. For instance, there is a universe where we might be having this conversation face to face, there is a universe where we are both dead, there is a universe where we are happily married with four kids, there is a universe where humans don't exist, there is a universe where life doesn't exist, etc.

Again, my context is "Spock realizes this is a new timeline and there's no need to make it go back to being the old timeline."

That's a different discussion then "Spock would hope to save all those dead Vulcans"

Speaking of, anyone remember that episode where McCoy goes back in time and messes things up, and Kirk and Spock go back to to restore their timeline? Or like that time the Enterprise-C was pulled out of the past into the future and it altered the timeline, so the alternate Enterprise-D sent them back to restore it even though they knew it mean they as they were would no longer exist?

Nope. Never heard of them. Do tell.

Universe 1,000,456

[?=Wordforge gets together and takes a picture][/?]

As I was looking for a Janeway hates time travel picture I stumbled onto this sight about time traveling and Star Trek:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/treknology/timetravel-general.htm

Spock's existence was a pre-destination paradox that got prevented, therefore was an anomaly that was corrected, and got un-corrected.

Losing 1,000 members of the crew of the ship he had served no for 10 years was enough to drive a Vulcan in Deep Space Nine completely insane.

Imagine how losing 5 billion Vulcans would effect the survivors.

You know, that might be a story worth pursuing in a novel set in the Abramsverse.

That the shock (both normal and psychic) of having so many of their people killed at once turns the surviving Vulcans in to basically "Ninja like super Romulans" intent on exterminating any and all enemies past, present and future of their race.

It's funny how the default "defense" used by the fanboys inevitably ends up being some attempt to make critics out to be bigger nerds than they are ... usually while on some Star Trek of sci-fi forum of some kind.

Y'all think about this shit too much.

I know, let's go back to RR, and debate abortion.