Machine gun attack on Paris magazine office

The politicians are doing it because some Christians are continuing to vote for them. I seriously doubt if many Muslims are voting for the politicians pushing this agenda.

So, if you're so concerned about it, why are you wasting your time here, arguing with me on the subject? You've demonstrated yourself to be nothing more than a rabid Tasmanian Devil ala Warner Brothers cartoons, so you've no chance of getting anyone here to take you seriously on anything, which means if you're truly convinced the Muslims are going to destroy us all, you need to move on to different pastures to try and stop them. Its apparently pretty easy to fly from the US to the MidEast and the folks fighting against ISIS are said to be desperate for fighters, have you thought about taking the fight to them, instead of just sitting around your hovel blogging about ecigs?

Which laws are the bible thumpers rewriting?

Perhaps you mean the laws passed against gay marriage that have been struck down by almost every court at this point and gay marriage is quickly becoming a "whatever" event to the country?

Or perhaps you mean the laws passed against having religious displays only of Christianity in government buildings. What's that you say? The courts and laws have stepped in and said everyone must have equal access?

Or maybe you're talking about creationism nonsense that the thumpers keep trying and ultimately failing on a regular basis to put in schools?

Or maybe you're talking about putting people to death for being homosexuals? Wait....what? We don't have those laws?

Or maybe you're talking about stoning adulterers to death? No we don't have those laws either and Christians love cheating on each other. You can't look at America and say we are a faithful nation. We aren't.

Or maybe you're talking about laws that put rape victims in jail for having the gall to be raped? No, we don't have any of those laws either.....



I know you must be talking about the thumpers rewriting the 1st Amendment so that criticism of God or insults against God are punishable by death!



Well I can't think of anything the thumpers have been doing lately......

Certainly you must have many examples of the Christian fascists in America who are trying to oppress you and are wildly successful at it.......

Because I have as much interest in criticizing the homicidal nutters as you have in defending them.

Personal attack, utterly pointless.

Second personal attack, equally pointless.

By the same token, though: If you think they're no threat, I could point out that ISIS is also accepting foreign recruits -- if you think they're so peachy, you could go and join them. Or you could go to France and open a magazine that satirizes them. I'm sure they'd be fine with it.

Well, the White House had expressed their belief that Charlie Hebdo had used extremely poor judgment in publishing the cartoons. and that what they were doing could only incite further violence. It seems they were vindicated. Unfortunately, since the publisher was based in France, Hillary's hands were tied and we couldn't just throw them in jail.

That's all well and good, but has anyone noticed that rep is back?

What do you want to bet he is christian? Please do not tell me that right wing extremists are not here in america. Perhaps our police forces and internal security do a lot to deter and make it harder for these radicals to organize and become larger like they do in the middle east, but they are there and you know it. There was the shootings a while back during the bundy dispute where a pair of right wing radicals went out and shot up a mall and executed some cops. We have a number of abortion clinic bombings and assasination of abortion doctors. We have the Bundy ranch thing which would have turned into a giant shooting spree had the government not backed down and persued other avenues. We have police executing blacks in the street. The WASPs here in the US are pretty damned active considering the amount of law enforcement we have. There is OKC, the unabomber, and Waco. Please do shut the hell up wth your pretense that this is a muslim thing. This is a radical religious thing.

Yes, you are so not caring that you respond all the time. Let us not play the game where we try to both claim how uninterested we are. If you were truly uninterested in me and though I could say nothing useful or dangerous to your pontification you would simply ignore me as I have done with faceman. You do not see me arguing with that twat, now do you? Nah, he is pretty damned worthless, and I can let him bitch without response because I truly do not care. Now, we bitch at each other so we find some reason to do so, which means we are interested in some way. Now go back to building your bombs or dry humping your gun, or whatever your racist terrorist ass does when it is not typing and let us not play stupid games like that. There are many other stupid games to play that are much more fun.

What do you bet that both the perpetrators and intended victims were Christian, and that there weren't any actual intended victims? Further, what do you bet that Christianity was the last thing on anyone's mind? Did you know most liquor store robberies are committed by Christians? I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Bible about robbing liquor stores. They didn't even have liquor in the Bible. Liquor was invented by Arabs some centuries later.

Also, the number of abortion clinic bombings that hurt anybody stands at one, by Eric Robert Rudolf, and the number that did more than break a window stands at less than six - over 30 years. The ones that did more than break out a window took out a wall, doing $6,000 in damage, while others missed completely, because they have to count Molotov cocktails thrown by drunk people, which happens somewhere about every ten years. And by the way, the Unabomber was a left-wing radical. The OKC bomber was an atheist. Waco was a cult.

I have to ask, did a bunch of priests shoot you up with LSD and rape you as a child, or are you that disconnected from reality?

Not saying it was so. Just saying this is how I'd do it if I was Marie LePen ruthless and power hungry enough. Organize a bloody attack (not hard considering what's going on in the banlieues of French cities), blame tolerating extremism on the current government, force reelections, win. Congratulations, Europe gets its first nazi leader in 80 years.

No they are not the same thing although the lines can get blurry at times.

Actually, the Nazis were allied to the Muslim extremists. You're going to need a new angle.

They have more freedom and support for things over there. People like that exist over her and organize over here, but we have better laws and leaders who have overcome those prejudices. Yes, uip until fairly recently we have had such things in american history. Thoughi it may seem long for you, the reality is these new rights and protections are very young, and we are still fighting off challenges from them. We have draconian laws being proposed and voted postively on. A while back we had states pass measures that forced a woman to be penetrated by a ultrasound wand if they wanted to have an abortion. This added no medical value, it was just to stick something in her for having an abortion.

The fact that most of our society has something to lose in causing public violence Contributes to them following non-violent paths towards making radical changes. It is not to say the people are not there, but rather the risk of getting caught and prosecuted is far larger here than over there. If you had our system of police and community over there you would see a lot less violence from the extremists also. It does not mean they are not out there, just that it is much harder to act here. Police would not tolerate the storming of a gay bar here as they would over there. If you actually put it up for a vote here you would get people who wanted women to wear ninja suits, and deny them education or licenses. They are out there, and we just do not let them have a say like they do over there.

So cut the crap with the idea that does not exist in christianity because it would if we allowed it to.

Do you have an actual counterpoint? No really, if I am wrong please do state where and show it. Provide some sort of credible example of it being so. Otherwise you are just spouting and providing nothing but bullshit. I am not seeing too much from you that ever supports what you say. At least Oldfella can muster up some rationalization or a quote or two. You are just pathetic. I may not care for Gturner, but at least he says something and makes an actual argument. You are just dumb as shit. I would give any of them more respect than you. Fuck, even John Castle deserves more respect than this post. Shut the fuck up or post something usefull.

I don't care what I sound like, but I stand by my statement. Maybe because I've seen what these extremists/insurgents/crazies
do I know they have no concept of mercy so fuck begging for your life. Would you beg for your life if a tiger were about to attack you?
Hell I might shit my pants, but not beg for my life because it would be futile because you can't reason with tigers...or these animals of a different breed.

Maybe, just maybe this french cop was in panic and afraid to die. Perhaps his last thoughts went to his wife and kids. No time for playing badass or even mustering a rational thought.

Have you ever been in a similar situation? Ffs, who are you to judge? Despite being a gunloving redneck, I always considered you as a cool guy I would have a beer with at any time. I still do. But this statements of yours are really, really weird.

Guess who lives in a state that's still fighting against the legalization of gay marriage. Then there's the fact that people have suddenly decided that the government has no business in handing out marriage licenses, so they're now screaming that there should be no government marriage licenses at all. Funny how the idea only occurred to them after the courts began ruling in favor of gay marriage.

And the courts keep having to do this, despite the fact that they've already ruled on the matter repeatedly. Its almost as if some people think their religion is more important than the law.

Of course, rather than teach evolution in K-12, schools ignore the subject because its too controversial, and for most people, the first time they're taught about evolution is when they get to college.

How about the fact that its legal in some states to reject medical treatment for a child in favor of prayer and that if the kid dies, the parents cannot be held legally responsible for that death? Or the recent Hobby Lobby ruling? Or Ken Ham getting $18 million in tax credits to build a Noah's Ark theme park? (Yes, he later lost those tax credits, after secularists pointed out he was violating the law with his hiring practices, but he never should have been considered for them in the first place.)

Oh, and we have a Christian leader involved in slavery in the US in the 21st Century. Attempts to teach "destiny" instead of evolution in the classroom. Americans going to places like Uganda and pushing for "kill the gays" laws.

There's more, of course, but there's not really any point in listing them, because it won't do any good. You'll just scream that because we don't have the same penalties as an Islamic country, there's no issue here, but were someone to say that since the US doesn't have the same bans on guns that they have in Europe, there's no issue with gun rights in this country, you'd scream bullshit. Iranians executing people for being gay is terrible, of course, but its not a threat to America.

So, let's hear your solutions for Islamic violence.

Show me where I've defended them.

As is everything you've said.

Again, as is everything you've said.

I never said that ISIS wasn't a threat, I just refuse to shit my pants over them, like you do. Nor would there be much point in my moving to France, since I don't speak French, and given that newspapers all over the world have been rerunning the offensive cartoons, yet the number of attacks on newspapers related to them hasn't increased, I'm thinking that it'd be no big deal were I to do as you suggest.

Right now, the world is on the side of the dead reporters, and how we in the West respond is going to determine if the world remains with us. Going full paranoia and suggesting that we just bomb the shit out of every Islamic country in the world is not going to score points for our side. Screaming about Islam being the most horrific thing ever, isn't going to score points for our side. Being rational, and adhering to established law, is going to score points for our side.

What's NBC?

NBC?

Nuclear Biological Chemical.

I'm not even sure at this point that he's not a troll account. I can't imagine someone being that stupid.

The religion of peace strikes again, and the white house blames the victims.

I wonder if they would react the same way if a muzzie had walked into the offices of Mad Magazine and blown evryone away? Of course, Mad Magazine doesn't have the balls to publish those kinds of cartoons, and they're too busy wallowing in Dickynoo-esque sneering at Christians to focus on the real threat of extremist, bizarro-world homicidal islam.

This is what you get when violent extremists are coddled and cowtowed to, and libtards are allowed to impose their narrative that any criticism amounts to "bigotry." Terrorist attacks and dead creative types & intellectuals. It makes one pine for Bush's "axis of evil" rhetoric.

See, what I don't get is this whole effort to give one religion a pass over another. As someone who lives in a country were the church doesn't have anything close to the power and influence it does in America, I have to see that some of what I read going on in your country that is motivated by Christianity is truly shocking and worrying.

The way I see it, if someone uses religion to oppress then that isn't a good thing, and the Christian church in America has been used to stifle free speech, promote homophobia, excuse racism and so on. These aren't good things and while a person who promotes such ideas may not be on the level of someone who murders for faith, they are still evil cunts nonetheless.

You know, in all of this, the only argument from those who you perceive to be the left has been that you can't tar all Muslims with the same brush. But you seem to be arguing as if Christianity is also a great be whole in the way you view Islam. That, again, is at fault because not all Christians think the same way.

At the end of the day, the true crime is religion itself. An insidious, man made belief system used as an excuse to dictate behaviour, sometimes of the most heinous kind. If you were truly consistent it isn't Islam per se that you would have an objection to, it is the idea of organised religion as a whole, as there is not one major religion on this planet that hasn't been used and abused in some way or another over the course of the past few decades.

And you know better than to point this out to the idiots on the left here. They either don't pay their own way, haven't grown up yet, or don't live in the real world. Either way, you'll never get through.

I've yet to actually see this statement from the White House. If it's true I don't agree with the idea of being cautious in this particular case. People with any sense of enlightenment know that religion is man made and therefore should be open to ridicule as much as anything else.

That having been said, Charlie Hebdo would go very close to the knuckle on a lot of things, not just religion. It reminds me of the debates of free speech you have in America, where the idea of it is used to get away with some of the foulest hatred possible. So the question that I would pose is that just because you have the right to say something, does that mean you are either compelled to do so or that you should not be mindful of the consequences of saying it?

Consequences aren't just limited to free speech. In general, everything we do has consequences. Just because I'm free to eat a large pizza for lunch today doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Same thing.

Islam is a pack of badly written lies dictated by an illiterate epileptic murdering misogynist pedophile, its most vociferous militant adherants are culturally fucking pathetic, and the "liberals", who defend this bullshit are a miserable lowlife fucking fraud to the title.
Happy?

Case in point: last week, I was reading about Israelis treating Palistanians as second hand citizens in the area that the former now occupies....the latter cannot congregate in groups larger than seven people, must live in certain neighborhoods and are required to have special license plates because certain roads are off limits to them.

It's like WWII never happened.

I have to agree. When one speaks in an offensive way they should expect that people are going to react poorly to their words. Of course we do have laws against killing people, and try to agree that taking another's life should not be something we do without thinking or consequences. Still there are people who decide to murder despite the rammifications for it, and given the reality that there are very crazy radicalized Islamic nutbars out there that this would be a possibility and should have been prepared for. In a perfect world it would not have happened, but we live in a world where you can expect people to do things like this. I am glad they are out there poking holes in the bubble, but do be prepared when dealing with these sorts of people to defend your life because they are that seriously fucked up.

And that does not just go for cartoonists who draw pictures of muhammed. There is a reality that being exposed as homosexual in many places in america could cause you to lose a job or promotion. It could also result in someone physically attacking you or killing you. There is a reality for black people that resisting police is going to be a lot worse for you than if you are white skinned. There is a reality that expressing atheism could cause you to have problems at work, or be accosted in the street. You have the freedom to do these things, but there is a realistic possibility that someone is going to come along and fuck you up for doing so and you need to be prepared to defend yourself until the police arrive, or if you are black you have to make it to court without being killed.

It is an unfortunate truth that sometimes when you assert your freedom of speech you have to bunker down to avoid being killed for it.

Sharpening Contradictions: Why al-Qaeda Attacked Satirists in Paris

The horrific murder of the editor, cartoonists and other staff of the irreverent satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo, along with two policemen, by terrorists in Paris was in my view a strategic strike, aiming at polarizing the French and European public.

The problem for a terrorist group like al-Qaeda is that its recruitment pool is Muslims, but most Muslims are not interested in terrorism. Most Muslims are not even interested in politics, much less political Islam. France is a country of 66 million, of which about 5 million is of Muslim heritage. But in polling, only a third, less than 2 million, say that they are interested in religion. French Muslims may be the most secular Muslim-heritage population in the world (ex-Soviet ethnic Muslims often also have low rates of belief and observance). Many Muslim immigrants in the post-war period to France came as laborers and were not literate people, and their grandchildren are rather distant from Middle Eastern fundamentalism, pursuing urban cosmopolitan culture such as rap and rai. In Paris, where Muslims tend to be better educated and more religious, the vast majority reject violence and say they are loyal to France.

al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination.

. . . .

The operatives who carried out this attack exhibit signs of professional training. They spoke unaccented French, and so certainly know that they are playing into the hands of Marine LePen and the Islamophobic French Right wing. They may have been French, but they appear to have been battle hardened. This horrific murder was not a pious protest against the defamation of a religious icon. It was an attempt to provoke European society into pogroms against French Muslims, at which point al-Qaeda recruitment would suddenly exhibit some successes instead of faltering in the face of lively Beur youth culture (French Arabs playfully call themselves by this anagram). Ironically, there are reports that one of the two policemen they killed was a Muslim.

. . . .

“Sharpening the contradictions” is the strategy of sociopaths and totalitarians, aimed at unmooring people from their ordinary insouciance and preying on them, mobilizing their energies and wealth for the perverted purposes of a self-styled great leader.

The only effective response to this manipulative strategy (as Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani tried to tell the Iraqi Shiites a decade ago) is to resist the impulse to blame an entire group for the actions of a few and to refuse to carry out identity-politics reprisals.
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Just a reminder that the people blaming this on Islam as a whole and calling for a broad crackdown on the religion are, in fact, acting at the behest of the terrorists to help them win. Thanks, Zombie!

This is why my grandfather used to say that Israelis were no better than the Nazis. He hated the hypocrisy, and note only was this was a man that lost just about the entirety of his extended family in the holocaust, but this was 35 years ago we're talking about so it shows you how long it's been going on.

Persecution, racism, oppression. Human concepts so focused on ethnicity, colour and social identity, with the greatest irony of all being that it really doesn't matter what colour, religion or creed your are, you can still stoop to exactly teh same level of arseholeness as the next person. It's way I have less and less faith in humanity the older I get.

First of all

Second of all, the answer to this bullshit is a deluge of cartoons.
Violence is playing their game.
Cartoons are their kryptonite, their actions admit as much.