An interesting argument that is, unfortunately, all to rare.

Some of you might remember Van Jones from the Obama administration. Well, he is back and he has some interesting and pretty spot on things to say about both liberals and conservatives. Take a couple minutes and just listen then tell us what your response is.

This isn't YouTube, no one wants to watch videos.

And not a 20 minute video, Jesus Christ

That was remarkably good. Had to watch it at 2x speed so I may have missed a couple things, but yeah, that was just about right. That dude should run for president. Not win, necessarily (he's still a big-government liberal) (but if it's him vs Trump and the LP candidate is McAfee, I'm voting for him), but I'd love to see his perspective in the debates.

waiting for the autotuned remix of this video

I don't think "flyover country", is "dumb and uneducated".
They have plenty of information pumped into their heads, it's just propaganda scam bullshit to keep 'em voting a certain way.

I'm sorry, but we're not arguing over ice cream flavors, or favorite salad dressings here.
We're arguing over what's actually real.
Reality is knowable, science tests reality, and pseudo-science is objectively false.
Racism is pseudo-science.
Religion is pseudo-science.
Alt-med is pseudo-science.
Anti-vax is pseudo-science.
And they aren't harmless, like Santa Claus belief.
They infringe liberty, and make people take poison medicine, and fucking DIE.
They fucking DIE over this shit!
And it's not nice clean Darwin Award shit, these people take fucking collateral damage!

There's hippy-dippy granola munching pseudo-science shit on the left, but you look at the Trump platform, he ticks all the boxes.
Fucking all of em!!

How do you tell people deep in the midst of a con that they're being conned, and they don't dig in their heels and double down?
I haven't found the way.
If you know they way, clue me in.
I've tried everything I fucking know.

Thank you Van Jones for telling us what we already knew.

The problem here folks.

Oh yeah? Refute him. Prove him wrong.

I don't think that the left should ADDRESS red-state Trump-lovers in terms of "you people are too racist/dumb/hateful/gullible to understand that voting Republican is a bad idea" - you can't insult people and ask for their support.

BUT

Having lived among these folks all my life, having BEEN one of them for most of it (under the category of "gullible" or "deceived"), the notable majority of red-state conservatives are INCREDIBLY poorly informed and motivated by (though they are in denial about it and don't recognize it in themselves) animis towards the "other" that they have been trained to blame for the things the perceive as wrong with the country. To recognize that is to recognize FACT.

But that said, it is true that you will entrench that reality if you mock and demean it. That's not a winning strategy.

I also concur with the idea that someone, somehow, needs to motivate authentic conservatives to sort out that it's more important to disavow fascist nationalism than it is to be obsessed with the evils of liberalism. Either left or right, there are always extremes - the trick is to keep extreme ideas ON the extreme fringes and not let them creep into the mainstream.

We're Americans. We like to double down on our fuckery when we're called on it by outside agencies. I believe it's cultural.

Let's just dissolve the Republican party and let's all be Libertarian instead.

When you start off with fuck your religion, you're not going to reach anyone. I've voted Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent and whatever Nader was since I was eligable to vote, but a party or ideology that says fuck your religion, that's it, I'm not listening any further no matter how great your ideas are.

This is pretty much America in a nutshell right here.

Edit: As long as by "religion" you mean "Christianity." Saying "Fuck Islam" and mockingly saying "Religion of Peace" every time there's a terror attack is perfectly A-OK.

People say religion of peace because for the entirety of the Obama administration and the Bush administration the media constantly reminded us how peaceful Islam supposedly is every time a terrorist attack happened. It's more about mocking liberals and the media than it is mocking Islam.

So if someone says "fuck Islam" you stop listening? Or "fuck Scientology"? Or "fuck Buddhism"? Or is it just your religion?

My religion is personal to me so it would be a personal insult; however, if someone said fuck Buddhism or Islam, I'd likely be inclined to not listen as well. I mean @Diacanu goes off on religion all the time and I often scroll past as if it were a @Tererun post.

Maybe you should try getting an education and realize you are wrong about many things?

The burden of proof lies with Diacanu first proving he is right.

Again, it matters if it's true.

If religion is right, and Invisible Sky Daddy cares about buttsex, and demons are real, and buttsex comes from demons, then homophobes aren't homophobes, they're fighting a glorious cosmic war against the forces of evil in the universe.
Like a Star Wars movie.
But with buttsex.

But if Invisible Sky Daddy is fake, gay people are normal, are innocent, and every act of homophobic bigotry has been an act of evil.

That's a pretty big and important difference.
I'd think you'd want to know the truth, and wouldn't want to chalk something that big up to "I just believe it because I believe it".

Feelings aren't good enough for me, I have to know it's true.
Lives are on the line.
This isn't a game.
Life isn't a LARP.

All the pseudo-sciences are properly debunked.
Google that shit.

As for The God Hypothesis, I don't have to disprove shit, the religionists have to prove their positive claim.
They haven't done so.
Not in 5000 years of Abrahamic religion, and 100,000 years of any religion.

Well, who am I to argue with such an highly-educated genius as yourself.

What exactly is the alternative to insulting racist, anti-science, anti-fact politicians and their supporters? Pretending such positions are deserving of respect only legitimizes them and pushes the boundaries of reasonable debate further in the direction of their nonsense.

And of course, the idiots that whine about respect are the same ones screeching about libtards and feminazis and homosexual agendas with their next breath.

It's not like he cares. You could have every proof in the world and he'd likely sidestep it. He's a shit stirrer. He's the kind of guy who'd eat a rotting dear carcass in a room full of vegans if it would get the attention he so desperately craves.

You should totally make out with them.

You don't say...

He's the kind of guy that would walk into a biker bar dressed as a thong-wearing pony boy.

The bikers would probably like that, though.

Generally speaking when people say 'Fuck [your religion]' it is short for 'Fuck [your religion]'s intrusion into my life'.

The problem with some religionists is that they believe that their religion has a special place and that it SHOULD impact the lives of ordinary folks, whether they believe in this or that deity or not. These people take any effort to place all beliefs and even non-belief on an equal level as an attack on them and their religion (see War on Christmas).

What can you do? Atheists are a nutty bunch.

You should give it a go.

The whole religious right thing is more complicated than I previously thought. It's not just about making it illegal to do things The Bible says not to do. It turns out there are exemptions for when the evildoer is one of their own....and they're unapologetic about it. They would literally rather vote for a pedophile or a fornicator than a Democrat. It's like they think Democrats are literally evil incarnate.