Can Kids Consent to Hormone Blockers?

A few older queer women I've spoken to have told me that TERFs were known to burst into meetings to antagonize trans women. The cis lesbians who'd step in often were met with fists. Trans women stopped going to these meetings out of fear of the others' safety

Summerteeth came in with some bad info because Britain and got screamed at by Tererun, and yet she's been respectful and engaging in good faith.

Piss off.

I wouldn't know I was two. I didn't care for the pictures though.

And that's how/when FF became the killer from "Sleepaway Camp".

Found this one online:

Not sure where I see any radical feminists in that group.

The one that possibly could sound like one, the 'Concerned Women of America', is yet another thinly disguised Christian group.

From https://concernedwomen.org/about/who-we-are/

Our Mission
Concerned Women for America protects and promotes Biblical values and Constitutional principles through prayer, education, and advocacy.

Our Vision
Concerned Women for America is leading a movement dedicated to impacting the culture for Christ through education and public policy.

That's not the TERF. That's the religious right.

I run across a lot of TERFs in my online circles. There's a lot of overlap in the language they use.

The only things TERFS hate about Christian heteronormalcy is that they as cis lesbians (usually; cishets like JK Rowling are the exception, at least in the US) are excluded from it.

Articles like this speak for themselves.



That they can bend on a whim and slither into both sides with ease is why I legit think them to be as dangerous as any MAGA. They use a lotta dogwhistles that leftists can fall for too. The most common one being "Protect women from dangerous men!" On the face of it, women can agree on that, but when paired w a Twitter account that constantly puts out "Trans women are still men!" and other hateful shit about "dick worshipper" bi women and ace people, who are also dirtybadwrong for not wanting sex to begin with....

....like I said, there's a lotta overlap.

Plus,ost of the ones I've met are racist as shit too, so even as a cishet I don't trust them any further than I can throw them.

This is far from exhaustive but it might give some understanding for those who still aren't sure of the distinctions

TERFs regularly make common cause with Pharisees, and the latter invests a lot of money and effort into building up TERF influence in the UK. Parker Posey, for example, is regularly over hear speaking on anti-trans Heritage Foundation panels despite herself being a lesbian. She's not the only conspirator.

Wow, I thought I kept up on things, but I didn't know Parker Posey was either a lesbian or a TERF.
...can I watch "Waiting for Guffman" anymore?

how unbiased is medical and psychological help?

Remarkably. Consider, up until the last 2-3 decades, being trans was widely pathologized, you were a crank if you took it seriously. And it's not like it was unknown. You know that famous photo of the Nazi's burning books? That was literally the library of a German institute that was generations ahead of it's time studying sex and gender and sexuality. Nazi's tolerate no perversion, right?

Anyway, other than the pursuit of facts, there's never been anything that would constitute motivation for a scientist or doctor to suffer the hit to their professional rep that would come with "normalizing" the study of gender dysphoria. Even now when it's mainstream, there's really not anything that would constitute a self-serving agenda. Even if you were to suspect something as base as profit, there's simply not enough of us to constitute a profitable cohort.

While it's certainly true that not all medical professionals live up to the moniker "the caring professions" - there's still a good reason for that label. Most simply want the best for the people they care for.

In contrast to this lack of nefarious motive, trans critics (the professional opinion-having class, not the random internet FF type) are uniformly chock full of them. Mostly religion and political power and especially where these two overlap. For politically ambitious religionists, having a scapegoat to provoke fear and/or anger is absolutely critical to their business model. They don't ACTUALLY CARE about trans people, we're simply a useful tool to advance their power - power which derives from millions of ill-informed, trusting marks who unwisely assume their claims can be trusted.

"How can you not reinforce gender stereotypes in all this?"

As long as the culture is addicted to them, I don't think you can avoid it. While not all trans people are interested in conforming to the binary gender expectations (and her I don't mean enby's but actual trans-sex transitioners) most of us find that the most comfortable and also the safest way to move through the world is conformity. And that particularly in the most vulnerable populations which includes school-age kids. That's a LOOOONG term goal (moving society away from those comfortable expectations)

"How would you know it’s not child avoidance of societal sexualisation?"

You do the best you can working with professionals who are trained and experienced to discern trans from some other thing which on the surface appears to be gender dysphoria. Will this be accomplished perfectly? No, but nothing in medicine/psychology is. The counter-point to that is, what is the alternative if you do nothing? This again is why blockers are critical, if there's any uncertainty your best course is to buy time.

"How does it impact sexuality (ie what if a desire in childhood of gender change is in response to them not processing they may just be gay?)"
Basically unheard of, it's the reverse that's often the case ("maybe I'm just gay?") because the perception, at least the last few decades, is that's less likely to get you declared a "freak". But here again, the core principle is that you just KNOW if you're uncomfortable with your assumed (by others) gender. It's not like you can just be a tomboy and get a rubber stamp (which is the conservative myth), if you''re not certain you get professional assistance and you sort it out over time with no judgement either way.

What the TERFs like to say is that there's basically some assembly line in which the moment a girl says "I'm not sure" she's had a fat shot Testosterone the same afternoon and a reserved spot on the mastectomy calendar. Reality is trans care is HARD TO GET and more so for young people. There's no assembly line.

For example, I'm a whole as grown up in my 50's and if my schedule goes ahead as planned and it will be a full 13 years from the time I first told my wife. In the U.S. only about 25% of transitioned trans people make it through the whole course of treatment including GRS, and while some simply choose not to, I promise you WAY more than 1 in 4 WANT to, but a lot can get in the way.

If you're on Twitter, even as a ghost, follow Transadvocate (or probably on FB too for that matter) - the things she posts right out of the heart of terfworld will peel the skin off your face. Q ain't got shit on those people.

Also, understand, I'm NOT talking about the actress - your response makes me think I messed up. One of them is parker Posey, the other is Posey Parker (which is not even her real name for reasons I'm not informed of) Whichever of those is the actress, I'm speaking of the other one.

(researching....)

Yeah, it's the latter I'm speaking of. Parker Posey you know, this is the woman who calls herself "Posey Parker" (this is so easy to mix up I literally had to edit that sentence just now)

By the way, this by the indispensable and brilliant Julia Serano might provide some illumination, or hell find most anything she's written on the general universe of trans science
https://juliaserano.medium.com/the-dregerian-narrative-or-why-trans-activists-vs-276740045120

So I can assume your further remarks on this topic are fundamentally unserious and mocking and therefore my best course is to ignore them given they deserve no serious consideration.

Duly noted.

No, that's not what upsets me - what upsets me is cis parents of cis kids saying "well none of that is true of ***MY*** kid so it can't possibly be a thing!" As if someone says "My child has a birthmark" and you lot say "there's no such thing as birthmarks! Just look at my perfectly unblemished kid! Say, what's your agenda anyway?"

That's true insofar as it's just and only that. It only has - limited - relevance insofar as it supports what the child TELLS you of themselves, and some of that is a function of how the child knows others will read them based on what they know of the world (like a "girl" who adamantly wants a buzz cut, maybe she just picks up on the social cues that this will get her read as male, or a "boy" who's interest in dolls isn't so much an interest in dolls as a mechanism to intigrate into the social play structure of other girls)

That said, of course the younger you go the less complex their thoughts about what is socially expected of boys/girls will be - but they do absorb it much like they do language.

the adults in the room can't know the gender IDENTITY at birth, nor do they really need to.
But even insofar as one notes what end of the sexual bimodal distribution a child seems to belong to, they are ASSUMING that all things are in alignment with the gonads - just as they assume the presence of a vagina indicates the abscence of a Y chromosome...but occasionally it doesn't. But absent running a kereotype on the kid they wouldn't KNOW, just ASSUME.

And so it is with gender identity, it's really not hard to understand for those not pouring right wing mush into your skull from Fox et al on a regular basis.

I've learned to be broadly accepting of things I can't understand for lack of a frame of reference, enbys for example, BUT....

There are certainly those out there perfectly willing to appropriate the knowledge and language which is legitimate in a trans context to try and claim something that validates their particular fetish or whatever. Notoriously, some fool in Canada who claimed to identify both as a woman AND as an eight year old or some such shit.

No, goddamn it, you do not legitimately have the identity of an eight your old girl - get the fuck off my lawn.

Seeing as what i posted isn’t controversial at all, it’s pretty safe to assume there’s no agenda here

Maybe you should go back and reread how my opinion on this matter never once was a sweeping generalization of all two year olds. Nor did i ever say that gender dysphoria wasn’t a thing. In fact it was all pretty benign, and you’re just putting words in my mouth now

Yet despite this you get your panties in a knot, get upset and accuse me of having an agenda

Hence why i think you might be an extremist of some sort or at the very least have built in biases that don’t really make you the most fair and balanced person to discuss this matter, especially when coupled with your kind of embarrassing rant about The Economist

ETA - weren’t you a religious extremist at one point? Hmmm

My two year identifies as a dinosaur much of the time. Not a good guide for making any big decisions about his future, I fear.

Parker Posey is the actress. She's currently Dr. Smith in Netflix's Lost in Space reboot. I never thought I'd have fantasies about Dr. Smith when I was a kid.

In case you're wondering:

What Garak is not understanding, is that when I mentioned an age range, it was only to say at any point in time between those ages and consistently throughout that age range ...

I know you're smarter than that and can grasp the concept. Garak appears incapable.

Lol all you’ve done is compare something complex like gender dysphoria to a child’s preference in what T-shirt he wants to wear, oldfella with tits

It has been my habit in the past to presume you were considerably smarter than this.

Perhaps I was wrong but you don't have to be even above average to see why this kind of analogy is stupid as fuck.

Okay, so "Waiting For Guffman" isn't ruined.
Nor the one good part of "Blade Trinity".

Okay.


I have a 2.5 year old, he can't even pronounce "dinosaur" correctly let alone grasp the concept of gender even when it relates to himself
Don't be stupid
.....
I feel entirely comfortable saying that my son has no concept of gender at his current age of two and the likelihood of lots of other two years olds feeling the same way is rather high
This is not a controversial opinion.

In the context of the thread and the discussion at hand, there is no rational reason to cite what your child specifically thinks or is capable of if it is not to at least imply that this is a normative experience that can be used to inform one's evaluation of all kids of a similar age. I'm not saying you deny gender dysphoria but the implication is clearly that it's not a thing for kids of that age.

Because, again, there's no other reason to cite an anecdote other than to imply something broader - otherwise it's just the one kid, just like the one I mentioned. Is your child's (apparent) experience TYPICAL?

Absolutely!

This thread ain't about what's typical.

"get upset and accuse me of having an agenda"

Yeah....no. Reading comprehension is important, try it again. Take all the time you need.

"at the very least have built in biases that don’t really make you the most fair and balanced person to discuss this matter"

Yeah, I see your point. When were going to discuss the effect of potentially bigoted laws and/or policies we really don't have any reason to here from the marginalized group targeted by them, clearly such people would just be biased because they don't like being targeted. Best let the normal people discuss it instead.

"weren’t you a religious extremist at one point?"

Thus I'm aware of the points and counterpoints on both sides and am well informed to discuss the topic.

You joke but a sadly large number of news orgs wouldn’t allow Black reporters to cover the George Floyd protests because ‘they couldn’t be objective’.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/06/17/alexis-johnson-pg-lawsuit/

Here's some other links you might be interested in

Appetizer:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1377700408311771139.html

Full meal:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1377869901516349441.html

That one is full of more links for more understanding. It's specifically about one particular concern troll but it draws out some important information in the course of stripping the meat of f the bones of his claims. For example:

...it's why, despite transition regret being very low (<5% in studies I've seen), Singal spent the lion's share of his Atlantic article dwelling on desistance, detransition, and the manufactured fear of "social contagion"... ...speaking of manufactured, the anti-trans website that invented the idea of "transgender social contagion" IS WHERE SINGAL RECRUITED PARENTS FROM FOR HIS ATLANTIC ARTICLE! maybe he's not so "fair & balanced" after all...

...anyway, knowing that "cis outcomes are always better than trans ones" is Singal's ideology helps explain this week's incident, wherein he freaked out about this lovely story about parents affirming their trans daughter's identity. Singal has deleted the tweets, but what outraged Singal was that the daughter (who's lived most her life as a girl) was about to go on puberty blockers. now if this was a cis girl who was about to go on blockers to prevent unwanted masculinization, I'm sure he'd be a-okay w/this intervention but b/c she's trans, this is a travesty, because THEY REALLY SHOULD "NUDGE" HER INTO BEING CIS FIRST, BECAUSE THAT'S ALWAYS THE BEST OUTCOME! of course, he won't say this in these words precisely. he'll do it in more mealy-mouthed ways, like quoting ppl like Zucker...


TL;DR: most of the "just asking questions" concern trolling in media, and on social media, - if not all of it - derives from the basic assumption that growing up to be not-trans is always the best outcome, that it is inherently broken, failed, and second best if one has to settle for being trans.
Now, if there were no such thing as trans in nature, so that no one had to be manipulated to conform when they naturally don't, then yes, fine. But that's a fantasy world and it is demonstrably traumatizing to force a trans person to conform to a cis expectation.

Who is arguing for a third party to do it for them? What were we talking about again?

Here's more interesting IMO) reading

https://www.vox.com/identities/2235...ls-laws-arkansas-alabama-montana-south-dakota

More at the link


Oh, coincidentally, about the citation of major medical orgs, this is a new joint statement opposing bills that outlaw gender-affirming care for #trans youth. Signed by:
American Psychiatric Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Pediatrics
American College of Physicians
American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology
American Osteopathic Association

https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom...S2sdb4t6klekMhrbnqyw_otzSqE46zCTm2DSFYa2lYQSU

Several state legislatures across the country have recently introduced or are deliberating bills that would restrict delivery of gender-affirming care for gender-diverse patients, specifically for children and adolescents.
Our organizations, which represent nearly 600,000 physicians and medical students, oppose any laws and regulations that discriminate against transgender and gender-diverse individuals or interfere in the confidential relationship between a patient and their physician. That confidentiality is critical to allow patients to trust physicians to properly counsel, diagnose and treat.

Our organizations are strongly opposed to any legislation or regulation that would interfere with the provision of evidence-based patient care for any patient, affirming our commitment to patient safety. We recognize health as a basic human right for every person, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. For gender-diverse individuals, including children and adolescents, this means access to gender-affirming care that is part of comprehensive primary care.

Further, we strongly oppose any effort to criminalize or penalize physicians for providing necessary care for their patients. Physicians must be able to practice medicine that is informed by their years of medical education, training, experience, and the available evidence, freely and without threat of punishment. Patients and their physicians, not policymakers, should be the ones to make decisions together about what care is best for them.