The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

I just want to know what happens if you blipped while on a plane.

I've got to bring up that we also saw Falcon pull multiple high G manuvuers at over 30k feet without supplemental oxygen. And the guys in the wing suits gained altitude.

The Marvel powers that be have said that Hulk blipped people back safely, so if you were in a plane or boat or stuff like that, you were brought back on land in a safe place.

Ep 2 dropped today, and IMO it's excellent!

Love bringing on a great character like Isaiah Bradley, the interaction between Bucky and Sam is fantastic, some decent fight scenes, great name drop at the end building suspense. And a good take on John Walker.

There's no 'WTF is going on' to endlessly dissect and speculate like Wandavision, instead we get a good legacy super hero show in the vein of CA:WS and Civil War. Hell, they brought in the Power Brokers. Looks like this time they aren't an evil amalgam of professional wrestlers.

Looking forward to Zemo and Sharon Carter. But so far a lot of fun, and exactly what I want!

I definitely liked John Walker a lot more than I thought I would. He's not exactly the John Walker / Super Patriot from the 80's, but I can see how they got this guy from there.

I too was shocked that I actually thought John Walker was an OK guy. One thing confuses me though... are all of these guys Flag Smashers included... are they all injected with the Super Soldier serum? did I miss when Falcon got his?

Walker says (but the mention of Power Broker means he could be lying or WILL seek out enhancement to "keep up") he's just in shape and highly-trained and doesn't have super-strength. Same for Battlestar and Falcon.

Bucky is the only one with a version of Cap's serum, apart from the Smashers (and Isiah).

Flagsmashers are all apparently injected with a relatively new version of the SSS.

Bucky had been experimented on since the 40s, including with a variant SSS.

Sam is absolutely just an athletic guy with a flying rig and formerly a drone, with no SSS.

Walker and Hoskins are claiming that they are also normal humans. It's possible that they are lying or have been unwittingly experimented on, or that they will seek out SSS.

Isaiah had a version of SSS and apparently still got it to an extent when he's coming close to 100.

The 2nd episode referenced someone called the Power Broker, who apparently is behind the new variant of the SSS that empowered the Flagsmashers and sent the threatening text and the men.

I literally said what Raoul did. But do I get a rep?

Noooooo.

This is how supervillains get started, guys.

Or would, if my liver weren't in chronic peril. I drink to spare you all.

"The Power Broker" is the one that gave John Walker, Lamar Hoskins, and a few others their "Super Soldier" powers in the 80's run of the Captain America comic.

I think that's where this is going. The ex Avengers have nothing but contempt for these wannabes and they both know they aren't nearly as strong and skilled as Buck and Sam

The show is good but I find it a bit of a shame that Bucky and Sam are still quarreling like little kids - I mean Cap died and they couldn't find common ground from that tragedy and patch things up a bit? C'mon man

Also, I would have figured Zemo would be in a much more high security prison that the one we saw at the end of Ep 2

But on the whole so far I give it a solid B

As far as we know, Old Man Cap is still alive.

^ Yes that is technically correct - I should have said something to the effect of "they lost Cap"

So... what movie did Bucky get the SSS? Winter Soldier?

It's a bit murky - it appears to be related to Arnim Zola's unspecified 'experimentation' on him that allowed him to survive the fall in the First Avenger. I don't believe it's ever explicitly stated to be SSS, but it's inferred that it was some variant of that.

It also appears to be somewhat less powerful. The Winter Soldier when psychologically activated seems near unstoppable. Bucky even with his cybernetic arm and enhanced abilities doesn't appear to be the equal to the Winter Soldier's Terminator mode.

Oh, one fun bit of trivia.

Wyatt Russell, who plays John Walker, is Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn's son.

Maybe everyone else already knew that, but it was news to me.

I think the pieces are spread in the second two Cap movies. They said in Winter Soldier that he was experimented on but didn't specify what was done. In Civil War, the fear is that there were a bunch of Russian super-soldiers like him who were to be activated. And now in the TV series it again confirms that he had some form of SSS administered when he tells Isaiah that there are more out there like them.

I just finished the first episode. That opening sequence was beautiful. I definitely got some Indiana Jones/ Star Wars vibes with the canyon sequence. I wonder if the were using the same technology to film it that they use in The Mandalorian. NuCap looks hokey as shit. I liked both Bucky and Sam's stories. It wouldn't surprise me at all for some asshole bank to turn down a hero for a loan, very realistic. Also realistic is Vets are treated in this country, even after saving the damn universe. I kind of like WandaVision better though, so far.

Second episode was pretty good, I guess we'll see where this is going.

So....



The conversation around this show seems to be slowing down a bit. Are Wordforgers still enthusiastic about this show? For myself, I'd say yes, but even though it much more action packed than the previous Disney + Marvel show, I'd say there's not much in the way of development for these characters. 3 episodes left, so I assume things will get to moving pretty fast.


I take back my previous comment about liking John Walker. He's a bitch ass punk compared to Steve, Sam & Bucky. As far as we know, Steve Rogers is still kicking around somewhere. I wonder if old man Steve will make an appearance? This show takes place after the events of WandaVision but before Spider-Man Far From Home. Just wondering if we'll get any easter eggs to that effect.

I got incredibly bored during Episode 3. Stopped watching part of the way through, found something else to do, and haven't gotten back to it and don't even really have a lot of interest in getting back to it.

3rd episode was kind of a stinker, yeah

It was harder to just watch this episode and suspend disbelief.

So you mean to tell me the same Bucky who can get an arrest warrant put on his ass for missing a single court-ordered therapy appointment is going to break out a notorious prisoner from a German prison, fly with him to an outlaw nation, pretend that he's under hypnosis still to be a bad guy?

You mean to tell me that the same Bucky who had his mind and body healed by the Wakandans, who know that the prisoner killed the king of Wakanda, would have executed this plan without considering or enlisting the Wakandans' help? Or at least, figuring out that they might not like the murd3erer of King T'Chaka running free?

You mean to tell me that Zemo didn't stab them in the back the moment they were free?

You mean to tell me that Our Heroes and Zemo thought it would be a good idea for Sam to attempt to impersonate a bad-ass who he had never met or heard of, whose voice, mannerisms and history are completely unknown to him but who presumably are known to some Madripoorians?

You mean to tell me that Cap, Fury, Natasha and everyone else left Sharon high and dry to fend for herself after Civil War? And tthat no one attempted to bring her home after Endgame? (Admittedly, it could be that she is in deep cover in Madripoor and her story about being there is all a lie.)

Yeah, I finally did finish Ep. 3 and uh, yeah @Raoul the Red Shirt hit the nail on the head.

A bit of a stretch, but this is the same Bucky that warned Steve about the Russian Hydra Winter Soldier program that he said could overthrow entire nations. He knows of 8 super soldiers in the Flag Smasher group, and he knows they have serum to make double that number. There were only 5 super soldiers in the Russian facility. So in terms of motivation, he has far more reason than most to fear what could happen.

Enlisting? I think he'd know they'd never consider it. He wasn't surprised when the dora milaje appeared.

Zemo hates Super Soldiers. If he can use a couple of 'heroes' to wipe out the manufacture of Super Soldiers than he'd do so in a heartbeat. Honestly, I think Zemo is the best thing about this series. They are setting him up to be the epic badass we know in the comics. He's manipulated the heroes repeatedly, is always a step ahead, has used them to gain access to kill the chemist making the SSS, and continues to use them as a weapon against the Flag Smashers. The scene where he calmly finished his drink and backed out the door while the dora milaje fought the heroes was fantastic this episode.

Odd complaint - they succeeded with getting the info they needed, even though they were discovered. That seemed credible to me - risk is part of the job.

Yes. She's a spy. She's spying. It was obvious.

I like it a lot. The only real criticism I have about it is that Falcon and Winter Soldier often seem ineffectual, though that seems to be part of the heroic journey in a multi-episode format these days. This latest ep (4) showed them in a bit better light. The interplay between those two continues to be the heart of the show. They've done a lot of different genres within Marvel. This one is clearly the buddy cop/agent.

I've also liked the character building they've done with John Walker. He's quite a bit more interesting than the comics version, and there's enough of the dual edge there. He isn't always a villain in the comics, but he's always a rival. I think they've done a great job with him. My guess is his killing of the Flag Smasher's second will lead to him being stripped of the shield, and we'll see Sam get it back before the end.

I want to see how they play out Agent 13s role. She's obviously still working for some org, maybe Fury directly. I'm sure they'll go a bit deeper there, even if the two main protagonists never find out, they'll show the audience.

And as we've already seen a scene where Fury is actually a Skrull, they may be setting up Secret Invasion that way. But that's another show.

The reason there are less posts on this one compared to Wandavision is it's more of a straight up super hero show, without the convoluted reality that begs questions. And they didn't do specific things to incite the audience, like the casting of the wrong Pietro.

Only 2 more eps though. I think they've done some great world building for Phase IV and I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

I get that the threat of the Flag Smashers could lead to desperate measures. But Bucky and Sam have allies that they could have brought in before springing Zemo, or while springing Zemo. Yes, I get that Zemo had potential intel and could be useful, but he obviously can't be trusted. It would have made way more sense to hold their nose and work with Walker, or to bring in the Wakandans or to just have him play Hannibal to their Clarice and just give them tips out of his cell rather than risk him getting free.

The Wakandans are pragmatic. If they thought that they could ensure that Zemo returns to custody or gets a body bag after he had outlived his usefulness, they'd probably be down.

I agree Zemo has been fun to watch, but it makes Our Heroes and everyone look stupid for not realizing he is the scorpion that he is, or at least, for not taking meaningful steps that show they realize it that they easily could have.

Pretending to be someone that you literally know nothing about is not a risk a reasonable person would take. Not when they could just as easily pretend that he was "Will Samson, mercenary who helped free Zemo," or when he could have just stayed out of the mix. His presence added comic relief, sure, but nothing to the plan of gaining the trust of the Madripoor bad guys and was obviously something that risked undermining the mission. Hell, it's entirely possible that the bad guys would recognize him as the Falcon, because he's kind of famous.

Sharon is presumably spying, but the thing is, she is putting up this act in front of Bucky, Sam and Zemo. Presumably Bucky and Sam would have had some actual knowledge of what Sharon was up to between Civil War and the Snap. So for her to be lying about how she was abandoned after CW doesn't make sense to me on several levels. One, they might know the truth or they would at least question it because it's not consistent with who Steve and the rest were. Two, Sharon doesn't really gain anything by making that false claim as opposed to just being ambiguous about what she's doing there or even straight up telling them the truth.

Yep, John Walker just became the psycho from the comics.

Look familiar?

Looks like the tunnels where Princess Di was killed with added graffiti.