OK, so your comment is irrelevant to mine, because we weren't talking about getting a weapon out, we were talking about shooting someone you hadn't identified. Feel free to get your katana. At various times in my life I would have grabbed something like that as well. But if I have a gun in my hand, I need to know more than 'there's someone in my house and I can't tell who it is.' Even if I know it can't be my partner, there are still lots of different scenarios where killing that person would be wrong.
Well, now we're falling into the argument over whether home defense HAS to involve lethal force. Americans have been told it absolutely can and there are many laws (Castle Doctrine) to back that up. How many of them say you must check the target isn't a cop (or even an innocent)? Because I'm willing to bet most go with the "if in fear of your life, shoot" argument.
In fact, that's what the police did in the Breonna Taylor case, which got her killed, which got the cops who did it in deep shit. They were idiots to spray down the house randomly with 30+ unaimed rounds in response to a single shot.
Not my intent. There should be different standards if you are holding a lethal vs non-lethal instrument. A gun is far more lethal than a baseball bat, even if the later can theoretically kill. My point was that good gun owners woudn't shoot without verifying the target. But there are many, many bad gun owners. And that creates a lot of unnecessary problems. And I agree, that the police aren't going to let themselves get shot and that likely means dead home owner if a gun is fired at them.
Although the warrant for Taylor's house was obtained as a no-knock warrant, there are various signs that it was not executed as such. The cops said they knocked and announced. But let's discount their account because they have a vested interest in claiming that. There was a neighbor who said he heard knocking and announcing. It may be that he was pressured to say that, and he apparently had given a prior statement saying that Walker said in his statement to police afterward that he heard repeated knocking but no announcing. The knocking lasted over a long enough time frame that it woke him and Taylor up, each of them independently asked who was there, Walker was able to put some clothes on and get his gun. He conceded it was possible that the cops also announced but he didn't hear them. It could be that Walker too is lying or mistaken, but it seems like he would have little incentive to lie and say the cops knocked when in fact they didn't.
There's one man walking around this city today and that's the only reason he's still alive. I had an ethical, legal shot, but I couldn't positively place where my Sergeant was. Had I know where my Sergeant was, I would have taken the shot. No hesitation.
Umm...no? I would need a lot more information. Just entering my home wouldn't justify a shooting. That's crazy. Be like Poodle almost shooting his mom.
Out of curiosity, you experienced a situation like Walker describes it. You and your family are asleep and it's past midnight, nearly 1. You hear loud repetitive knocking, but whoever it is does not identify themselves. You know that, as Walker said about Taylor, there was at least one shady and violent character who it might be. You have your gun in hand. They break the door down. What do you do? Not a gun guy, but it seems to me that if you have a target, you should be able to see at a minimum that there are a fair number of people inside and at least some of them are wearing body armor. Do you shoot first and ask questions later? Do you come to the conclusion (especially assuming you're able to see they are mostly white) that it's the cops?
It depends on a lot of stuff, like if I have kids, where they are, etc. But for me personally, I don't have kids. So my first assumption would be that they're there to steal stuff because I'm a pretty likeable guy that nobody would want to kill . If that's the case, then they can have it. I don't own anything worth killing over. So I would get me and the wife cover/concealment/whatever in the bedroom while one of us calls 911 and either yell out to stay away, or keep my mouth shut...I don't know. If they came into the bedroom where we were, then I might (probably would) use deadly force...but not before that (and I sure as FUCK wouldn't fire a "warning shot" ). I mean not only have they displayed that they are a threat to me and/or mine, they're going through a bottleneck. I've got insurance for my stuff if that's all they're interested in. I wouldn't do any of that "clear the house" bullshit. But again, I don't have kids. If I did, I'd probably do something more proactive.
hmmm.....seeing body armor I'd assume they are cops. However being in my home after breaking down my door and not announcing they are cops might make me think bad guys. I can't imagine a cop not thinking getting shot is very likely if they don't identify yourself. They are breaking down the door of a suspect in a drug situation and generally anyone dealing dugs is armed and ready pretty much all the time. But back to the hypothetical question in a real world scenario: since I'm not a criminal I wouldn't be on the radar of law enforcement, so anybody breaking down my door would be a bad guy. I don't leave my doors unlocked so no drunk would accidentally walk into my house. If my son was visiting (he has a door key but not to the dead-bolt) he would call me on my cell phone to have me unlock the door. But somebody busts through the door and I'm in my bedroom and I had a gun at the ready? I'd take cover as fast as I can which would be on the side of the bed opposite the bedroom door (pushing my wife onto the floor first where she would be out of the sight of and temporarily protected by the bad guys (cover and concealment for her now, just cover for me of course) and get ready to engage whomever opens my bedroom door. That said I'm also keeping in mind my bathroom (attached to my bedroom) window in the event of multiple intruders coming in through different entrances.
Do you approve of the two beatings he’s taken? https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/author-andy-ngo-says-he-was-beaten-by-mob-in-portland/
There are LOTS of examples of cops breaking into the wrong house even after going through the warrant process.
See, I never understood that. In the State of Alabama, only the Senior Circuit Court Judge in any given Circuit can issue a no-knock warrant. Our current Senior Circuit Court Judge has a blanket policy where he won't issue them at all. But, the burden required to obtain one, even when the last Senior Circuit Court Judge would issue them, was exceptionally high. #1: There had to be video or photographic evidence of alleged criminal activity or the persons involved at the address. #2: We had to obtain all of the property records for that parcel via the Probate Court using the master plot plans on file at the County Courthouse. #3: We had to have proof that the requested address was correct for that property using current E911 addressing data from the E911/Dispatch/EMA office. #4: Both the Investigating Officer and the SWAT Team Commander had to appear before the judge in person with the plot plan, addressing data, video evidence, and their plan of entry (including the route from the PD to the address). #5: Before breaching the door, both the Investigating Officer and the SWAT Team Commander had to have a copy of the warrant in hand and both place their hands on the door and attest to each other that they had verified the address on the warrant and it matched the location they were about to enter. Point being, it's not an easy process and you certainly don't get one based on "one anonymous phone call."
Came home in the middle of the day for some reason. Dad was in his cellar workshop. Mom must have been out. I was getting something to drink from the kitchen. I heard "Oh it's you" and turned to see Dad with his .22 rifle. I said "Yup" and we both went about our business. *shrug*
That looked so cool on Miami Vice, and when Caan did it in Thief, and I practiced it plenty when I was younger. But yeah, I've long since come to realize that bolting the bedroom door and ducking behind the bed with the missus and a phone (and guns) is the more sensible approach.
Why if someone says "fuck Andy Ngo" do you automatically assume they think he deserved a beating? There's plenty of legitimate reasons not to like Andy Ngo and say fuck that guy Look what he did the other day: No retraction, no apology for intentionally misleading with the purpose of creating division between people I mean the guy is a joke and a drain on society So the question is, why would you even stand up for a twat like this
Well, being a douchnozzle shouldn't allow you to be beaten. Problem is, he's lied about being attacked before, so he has no credibility on that score either.
Agreed but I'm also not inclined to feel sorry for him, which I don't Fuck around and find out. It's a thing!
While Ngo is a lying little weasel he doesn't make my bar of 'third reich enthusiast' that it takes for me to cheer on a crowd beating him. But YMMV.
I'd normally agree, but this weasel's from my city, so no tears shed for him. Also, apologies for insulting weasels or Weasleys. Even while I think Ngo shouldn't have his ass kicked... he made his bed. Fuck Andy Ngo.
Tell me you're not indulging the "he said things we don't like, so we are justified in attacking him" mentality that spineless fucking cowards employ to defend their group-on-one attacks.
so how does taking a gun with you to investigate a noise equate to living in a western movie? His dad didn't rush into the kitchen with guns blazing. Basically an adult and a youth behaved in a level headed fashion. Kind of a snoozer of a western movie if you ask me. Hard pass, I'll just read the book instead.
Did you forget about the "punch a nazi" thread a while back? Scratch that very thin veneer on a bleeding heart liberal and you'll find the very nazi that they claim to hate.
whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.... Not feeling sorry for a loudmouth who gets his ass beat is not the same thing as approving said ass beating...
