30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11B.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

"Hey man, that's not funny, my uncle was a Manchurian Candidate ".

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It's also interesting to note that the same people who are so quick to blame sellers in the private sector are so steadfast in their defense of sellers in the public sector...

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

*Runs a scandisk of my own brain for this steadfast defense...0 results*

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Not every thread is about you.






























They're about garamet.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It's only enlightening to those who believe Government = Evil; Corporations = Benevolent.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

If anything this subject is proof that the two are more opportunistic and exploitative than either of those binary choices.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It's enlightening to believe that you believe that's the way people here, and in general, work.

Truth be told (and you should hear that, even though you consistently demonstrate you have no use for it), while many believe the former, you'll be hard pressed to prove the latter, because it's simply untrue (I know, surprise, right?)

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

People = evil if the system allows for it

Governments keep corporations in check.

Do the people still keep the government in check?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Exactly. They're both a product of the same thing...the human tendency to glom onto anything that's not nailed down. Change human nature, and you'll have a perfect world. In the meantime, you've got checks and balances in government, but a constant tug of war between regulation and deregulation on corporations, and otherwise seemingly intelligent people arguing "if we just leave corporations alone, they'll police themselves."

Since that doesn't apply to any other aspect of human behavior, why it's assumed here

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Since when are Republicans for transparency and simplicity in government?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

I completely agree. Of course, the Dems are only marginally better but some people seem to believe the small government nonsense propaganda so it's worth reminding them what Republicans actually do while in office. I still remember the late 90's when they said they wanted to let the markets decide food prices and what crops are grown (I'm for that) but then when the polls showed the coming Congressional election was going to be close suddenly Republicans brought back ag subsidies even larger then before. It was pathetic pandering at it's worse but that's what they do instead of what they say they'd do.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

This! It was in The Federalist #62 that Madison essentially said that if a law is so complex that the average citizen can't understand it, it's a bad idea.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Any tax simplification would have to accompanied by a requirement that from then on out all tax subsidies get counted as the expenditures that they are. That way they have to debated each budget cycle AND the CBO/OMB have to put out numbers on their effectiveness.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Corporations pay lobbyists because they get more value by having them than they do by not having them. If corporations didn't stand to gain from lobbying efforts, they wouldn't spend so much on lobbyists. They stand to gain from lobbying because our government has too much [of our] money and too much power.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

The government doesn't have too much of our money - tax revenues are at 80 year lows as a percentage of the economy. This is fact.

Oh, and do you think maybe, just maybe, the reason all these byzantine laws exists to manipulate is because the lobbyists have been spending billions to corrupt the system for the greater part of the last century?

This shit didn't grow overnight, and there's definitely TWO sides to this problem.

But we see the same people in this thread saying that it's just a problem with the government again.

And once again, they are blind to the fact that historically when the government didn't try to reign in the tyranny of those who exerted control over the common man through application of vast wealth that it was far worse than even what we see today.

Same shit, different day.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

You are a moron.

No one defends corrupt public officials here.

NO ONE.

Same empty, STUPID rhetoric.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

To a man who believes he only has a hammer, it makes sense that everything looks like a nail.

But he has to be pretty foolish to believe the only tool is the hammer when the tool box is right next to him.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Yeah. progressive democrats and republicans.

Jefferson and Franklin were right. The republic wouldn't last.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

These two are incompatible. If your friends/family/neighbors can't be convinced to stay informed and only buy from companies who keep their workforces in the States, then your country doesn't care enough to keep its citizens employed.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

So your position is that the cure to government regulation is...more government regulation? If lobbyists are so powerful, don't you think they'll be able to kill a law, banning lobbyists most ricky-tick?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Common straw man. Better regulations don't necessarily mean more regulations, in fact the opposite is usually true. A small amount of regulations, rigorously enforced are much more effective than a hodge podge of regulations weakly enforced.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Your Congress sells influence and you blame the buyers. Like I said upthread.

Get it through your head: lobbyists don't get a vote in Congress. Your senators and representatives do. You know: the ones sworn to uphold the Constitution?

But the power rests on one side. It is that side that needs to be curtailed.

GOVERNMENT is what has the power, and its own laws allow it to be peddled.

Historically it isn't even close: governments have been far, far more tyrannical than any person of "vast wealth." Last I checked, persons of vast wealth are miniscule in proportion to the government and don't have coercive police powers at their disposal.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Persons of wealth don't have the power to harass your business, forcefully take your income, or lock you in a cell.

However, they gladly purchase that power from the one entity that does.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Concur.

Of course, neither the corporations/lobbyists or the politicans/bureaucrats want to see an end to the gravy train, so they get a great deal of value out of forming polar opposite camps to ensure grid lock.

What they really are fearful of is the people waking up and wanting more control of their own lives, which de facto means greater controls over their ability to dictate to us.

Executives and congressmen would HATE that.

Oh well, I'm sure just purchasing a few more news organizations and ensuring that no matter which party wins they pursue a pro-plutocrat agenda will take care of that.

Its worked so far.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

That's a lovely way of presenting it. Who doesn't want control over their own life?

Of course, then you pull back the veil of carefully-woven BULLSHIT to find a less-than-insubstantial faction of some mouth-breathing asstards floating some variation on the "true freedom means freedom from responsibility! having to earn my keep is oppression! where my free shit?!?" meme.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Ah yes, GOVERNMENT has all the power.

The people that buy the government - hey, they are just responding to a free market.

EMPTY.

STUPID.

It's such a ridiculous concept - even if all politicians started corrupt from the get go, someone would still have to offer them money for the bribery to take place. And the bribers are certainly getting their money's worth, as Anc's article pointed out.

You are responsible for your own actions. When you bribe someone, you are responsible as much as they are. Indeed, whoever initiated the transaction is more responsible.

And there isn't a politician of worth in the country that some scheming businessman hasn't tried to bribe.

They are BOTH responsible.

Not understanding that means you are amoral at best, and a willing endorser of the slime at worst.

It clearly indicates you have no understanding of morality.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

There's certainly a group that TAANSTAFL hasn't taken hold of.

That being said, what led to this point was a massive wave of corruption that has been completely ignored by the powers that be that led to high levels of unemployment that even the distorted stats of the feds can't gloss over.

The reason this is getting any traction at all is so many people are out of work, and it's impossible not to realize just why that was - yet another speculative bubble manipulated and created in order to milk as much money as possible, and then compounded by some of the sleaziest business practices in history. All of which has been swept under the rug.

So yeah, there's bullshit here - most people do just want to work and earn a living, have a chance to put their kid into a good school.

But the propaganda machines are at full bore to protect the privileged classes privliveges - hey, they can afford to pay the best liars, right?

This isn't just the hippies wanting free stuff.

Thinking that is a joke.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

They certainly have the power to harass your business, Flow. How many businesses with better products have been squashed by established powers because of more money, better advertising, and better lawyers? That IS business at the corporate level.

Ask Tucker.

And the only reason they've been stopped from the later is because of the trust busting and destruction of company towns, which CERTAINLY did those things when they were allowed to, and are busy doing it in other countries as we speak.

The Government stops that from happening.

Which is why we need to make sure it isn't bought and paid for.

Because if they void that power, we'll be back to the former state of affairs in short order.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Businesses play within the rules they are given. Who makes the rules?

Right.