http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-chicago-records-500th-homicide-of-2012?lite The most since 2008 IIRC. What the hell is this? Beirut? Belfast (in the 80s)?
Yeah, pour more money into programs - that will fix the problem! "Conflict resolution" training needs to take it up a notch. Wait - doesn't Chicago/Illinois have pretty strict gun control? If so, why isn't this slowing down the murder rate? Maybe the shooters never got the memo. :santa_rolleyes:
I think Illinois is the last state to not allow concealed carry, now that it's legal in Wisconsin. Washington, DC, on the other hand, was set to end the year with fewer than 100 murders - that with that recent Heller case reinforcing the individual right to self-defense with firearms. Is it still on track? I was just there and the news seems to be reporting a new murder a day, just like in the 90s.
Historically, I'm used to hearing about bad stuff coming out of Chicago. As a UK citizen, though, I'd feel a lot happier in the decade upcoming if I had a piece. And preferably not a mild steel home-made, and I don't want my hand to suddenly vanish. Oh, and by the way: happy new year!
I don't get this argument. These are illegal guns. In other places the guns may be legal, or a mixture of both. What exactly is you point proof of? I had a look at American cities by murder rate. These cities all had higher homicide rates in 2010:- Louisiana St. Louis Baltimore Detroit Newark Oakland Washington DC Kansas City Buffalo Cincinnati Philadelphia Cleveland Pittsburgh Atlanta Stockton Milwaukee Miami New York City is even further down, ranked about 50th. So this notion that restriction has no effect is as spurious as the notion that it has some grand ballpark changing result. No, the real telling element of these figures is exactly what I have been saying in this debate all along, it's your society that has a problem,legal guns or not. YOu just don't want to have to face it.
^ Looking at that list, a great majority of those cities have considerable problems with gangs and/or drugs. Most of the gun debate threads have been focused on one-off mass killings like the Sandy Hook shooting and like Gabrielle Gifford earlier this year. Those people definitely have mental issues, but there's a lot to be said about the homicide that goes down on a daily basis, a good part of that being repeat offenders getting parole due to lack of space to hold them.
Well, gangs are a society issue, which is why I have been saying that it's not just about mental health, bit also social problems.
No worries bub, happy to translate. Man Afraid of his Shoes is saying gun laws haven't the impact some would like to believe.
Let's implement some reasonable gang controls. Or possibly a gangster buy-back program! Bring one in to be destroyed and you get a free Burger King voucher. Crazy mass killings aside, the largest percentage of shootings come from certain demographic groups, and always......always......will. Your list of cities will explain this in further detail if you wikipedia the demographics, in case some of you (especially foreigners) have never been to these lovely cities. Or watch this quick video tutorial :santa_smiley::santa_smiley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRJnEbt89w8
Gun restrictions dont work if done piecemeal. There's no point in one state having restrictive gun laws if its surrounded by states with lesser restrictions. That would be like flooding London with tens of millions of guns then placing gun restrictions in Kings Cross and Chelsea. It wouldn't work
This is the situation here in America with 50 different states all having different gun laws. :santa_angry: Lawmakers forget to factor in these new magical transportation devices called "cars" or "horseless carriage" to most of them. Apparently you can transport yourself and your guns easily and discreetly from state-to-state. :santa_smiley:
And where have I suggested otherwise? Why do you think I am talking about a societal issue? The fact that Chicago, and especially NYC are so low on the homicide list, proves surely that regulation has had some effect, however limited. The fact that it's limited indicates a social issue, hence my comments.
"This is proof that Chicago has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country" Actually that's not far off. They tried more restrictive laws but the Supreme Court of the United States knocked them down, resulting in more gun killings each of the last three years. New York also has very restrictive gun laws that were carefully crafted to get around some of the court challenges Chicago and other communities faced. Result? New York City, population 8.4 million, had fewer murders of all types (including gun killings) than Chicago, with one third the population. They have tougher gun laws and enough cops on the beat to enforce them. That should tell us something...
Yes - that only The Mafia and Law Enforcement are allowed to kill people with guns. No amateurs need apply.
Why worry about guns when people driving cars with cell phones kills so many more people. The fact that there is not a law against using a cell phone in all cars either built into the car or hand held is just crazy. They try and divert everyone's attention by talking about "texting". I fail to see the difference in the risk between dialing a number, texting, or checking the stock market. There is a HUUUUge cell phone lobby that fights against all this stuff because it would cut back on the minutes/gigabytes used and cut into their profit. They are paying off congress and the media rarely mentions this that I have ever heard/seen.
So...gun control would work--if it was only done correctly. In spite of its repeated failure. Kind of like socialism.
Chicago still has the most stringent gun control in the nation. Have any of the court overturned laws even had time to have any practical impact yet? The fact also remains that concealed carry is not yet an option in Illinois!
I don't even know what that means, but in regards to my previous sarcasm, that was a tweek at Confederatson, who often offers up the 'fact" that violent crime is more prevalent in the South, and that Southerners like guns, as proof positive that more guns = more crime.
And bringing that back to what you, I , and others have been saying. What are the elements common to those cities. There isn't one magical answer and this isn't a trick question. Gang activity is one. What about education levels? non gun crime rates? Incomes? judicial systems? cultural standards? What? Oh and Louisiana isn't a state.
Nobody said you suggested otherwise. Where on earth did you get that from? It "proves" nothing of the sort. Correlation is not causation. I thought you were supposed to be a lawyer or something. Chicago is like 19th on the list. DC is like sixth. There are other cities, with less restrictive laws that have lower violent crime rates. This suggests to me that gun laws have little or no affect on violent crime.
