Brexit now leading by 10 points

I don't think so, especially given which nations weren't even in NATO at which time. Note that I am talking about peace among EU (EC) members, not peace with the Warsaw Pact. But even if we consider NATO, we have pretty much the same picture repeated.

I hope the vote doesn't go to an exit.

haters gonna hate

You should Lexit from this thread.

Which European Union members has the EU kept peace between then?

Your stupidity literally gets worse by the day.

All of them.

Airstrip One is a nice name for it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......

You aren't going anywhere. We got plans for you.

You said you are a history teacher? Boy you should know the answer to that question. But here, have some schooling.

The EU was founded in 1957 by the Treaty of Rome as the European Community (EC). The founding members were Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and West Germany. Within the EC there was the European Coal and Steel Community as well as the European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM).

Sounds boring but should ring a bell if you have the slightest idea about historical contexts (vs learning things by heart without understanding them) . Coal and steel. The very things hitler built his army on. And the basic building blocks for nuclear weapons.

The goal was to make another secret buildup impossible by integration. Integration guaranteed that no member state would just one day roll out a giant army and tell its neighbors that they have been owned. Integration meant that no member state - especially Germany! - could even get the raw materials without the others noticing. It's why France and Germany had to be there right at the beginning. After centuries of warfare, those two would watch the other like hawks.

And it turned out good. It's an achievement worth fighting for. 70 years of peace have not been achieved within the EU's territory since Pax Romana, which lasted for about 200 years and ended 1800 years ago.

And Europe ruined the EU when they turned the EU from a economic integration where they could watch each other idea to a quasi-government that rules all over Europe without consent idea.

To me that's the main thing driving people's dislike of the EU and their desire to leave it. They've got people they haven't elected making laws for them to live by and over-riding their own country's laws.

Yeah, unfortunately that's pretty much true. I am in favour of a unified European government -- and very strong federal governments for each region, much smaller than the larger current nation states --, but that would have taken much more time and much more democracy.

That seems to be the general feeling towards the EU, yes, unfortunately. It seems to be that way if you don't look at it closely and local politicians keep blaming the EU for everything bad (but those same elected officials make those decisions in Brussels. It's absurd!). Also, as I said, the expansion round of 2004 killed every ambition for deeper integration.

My European dream is of one without the nation states. A Europe of regions if you so will. A region is what's historically defined - say, Tyrol. It's now split into three parts in two nations (Austria and Italy). But historically it's one. So, that's a region. There are plenty of those.

The big stuff like foreign policy and defense comes from Brussels. Also from the central authority come frameworks for taxes and social systems but the regions get some leeway there (no tax dumping, though - this ruined Ireland and keeps some Eastern European states down).

The smaller causes are managed by the regions. And that's it. No nations states. More of a United States of Europe.

Yea, maybe in 500 years. Such a vision means that TPTB would have to vote themselves out of office.

All members of NATO.

Yes.

Right now Europe has a "Articles of Confederation" thing going on where like in America we had states acting like countries and the Federal Government was a joke. It eventually became clear that to make it work the country would have to become one country and the states would no longer act like little countries. Out of that we got the Constitution and a truly unified America.

Actually we didn't get that in actuality until after the American Civil War.

Yeah, but only because some people didn't realize the Constitution and Articles weren't the same thing.

I think history teaching in the U.S. overstates how much slavery was the cause of the Civil War (and it was the major underlying cause) and understate how much sectionalism was a key cause. Specifically loyalty to the state and not the nation.

You're a terrible history teacher. But, to be fair, you're a far more terrible human being.

Whine, whine, whine. I liked you better when you wasted your time with negative reps.

Oh well your time will come.

YES!!

France withdrew later, and many nations now in the EU aren't or weren't in NATO at some point in time.

Yes? So? NATO certainly is another piece in the puzzle. Yet of course you're getting your facts wrong - Germany was no founding member. But OK.

However, NATO was never tested. Like, Article 5 tested. It's also partially a joke when at least two member states, namely Greece and Turkey, point their NATO guns at each other. It failed to stop the Yugoslav war right on its doorstep before it got out of hand. And finally, today. Ask the Baltic states what's stronger: the feeling of protection by the Treaty or the threat that is Putin. The Balts don't believe NATO would risk a war with Russia over those three little states. And my guess is, they would be right. Meaning if Putin risks the Ukrainian tactic with them, NATO would disintegrate pretty much instantly. Nobody would trust it any more if they just let it happen while spouting flimsy excuses.

Personally I think the EU is fucked and will drag us down with it if we remain. Better to cut off the shackles and run while we still have the opportunity. It was nice while it lasted but the time for hopefully an amicable parting has come.

France withdrew largely in name only and making NATO move their headquarters from Paris to Brussels.

In reality, France continued to cooperate closely with NATO and participate in military exercises with them. France was always included in World War Three scenario military planning as fighting in concert with NATO.

Greece and Turkey would almost certainly have gone to war more than once had they not been fellow NATO members.

Likewise Iceland and United Kingdom

Cod Wars.

?

That's debatable.

Iceland would crush the UK. Cold makes them tough.

IIRC one person (a ships engineer) was killed in the Cod Wars. Another person was injured.

Millions of dollars of equipment were destroyed though.

And yet you negged me for saying essentially the same thing?