What Was So Great About Firefly?

Mewa would love this thread.

Given the distances involved in space "borders" as we think of them on Earth never made any sense anyway. On Star Trek or anywhere else.

Dont you like any of the fmv scenes i posted?

There's a special hell for @Dayton3 since he created this thread.

Actually, yes they do.

Though the distances in space are large, we've seen that even at lowly warp 5, the transit time between Earth and the Klingon homeworld is only (IIRC) 3 days (according to the Enterprise pilot episode "Broken Bow"). At warp 7 or 8, it'd have to be hours or minutes. Could a state control a region where it's most far-flung regions are minutes to hours away from its seat of power? Sure. That's what we have today.

That was a mistake by the director of the Enterprise pilot you know.

The script said "3 weeks".

all hells are special

Even so. At warp 7 or 8, it'd be days. At warp 9? Again, hours to minutes.

Britain effectively controlled a worldwide empire when directives from London took weeks or months to reach the local authorities. The Romans administered an empire--admittedly, with some difficulty--that extended from Britain to Egypt. The United States, Russia, India, China, Australia, etc. are continent-sized functioning states even though parts of them are hours (or, in some cases, days) away from the political center, because communications are practically instantaneous. Since we've seen in Star Trek that subspace communications allow real-time conversations to occur, even over intervening distances of many light years, I doubt it would be any different.

100 light-years looks like an insurmountable distance when you don't have warp drive. So does 1,500 miles when you don't have airplanes, and 300 miles when you don't have roads, and 50 miles when you don't have domesticated horses. But with the right technology, these distances are minor obstacles to establishing a functioning state.

Your post is interesting but that isn't my point.

My point is that given the distances in space the concept of "borders" is largely meaningless.

Any kind of multi solar system "empire" or "alliance" would more likely be like a nation controlling various islands on Earth today.

You could have a Federation planet, then 10 light years away a planet controlled by the Romulans and then 20 light years further away a planet controlled by the Klingons. And still further away another planet controlled by the Federation.

The distances between stars are vast. It simply makes no sense to claim or attempt to control huge swaths of empty space between them.

It isn't about space. It's about time.

When dealing with warp-capable civilizations, consider that an adversary who gets within, say, 1 light year of your homeworld could warp over to it in just a few minutes, and rain photon torpedoes down on your population centers before you could marshal a defensive response. You probably don't want shit like that to happen.

You want to claim regions of space--and to have others recognize that claim and/or understand that the claim will be backed with force--so that you're not vulnerable to sudden, devastating, civilization-ending attack.

You could say that, since the ocean is really, really big, there's no need for nations to lay claim to miles and miles of territorial waters. But how do you feel about an adversary's ballistic missile submarine hanging out 10 miles from your capitol?

Fine.

1) A ballistic missile can't hit a target at that close a range.
2) An SSBN that close would be ridiculously easy to locate and sink at will .

But seriously,

In Star Trek, planets (even minor ones with an insane asylum on it) have planetary defense shields which as shown in "Whom God's Destroy" are fully capable of resisting direct phaser strikes from the main battery of a Constitution class starship.

Okay, it could have cruise missiles. You get the point.

Yes, but if it strikes first, it's too late, isn't it?

I don't think it was the whole planet that was shielded in "Whom Gods Destroy," I believe it was merely the facility itself.

In any event, we've seen big worlds threatened by starships in Star Trek, so I don't think you can write off the possibility.

No, the dialogue indicates the whole planet was shielded because the potential weak spot is said to be "on the far side of the planet".

Of course shuttles can penetrate planetary shields but that's yet another issue.

Such a submarine would be instantly trailed by an American SSN (easily done that close).

American SSN commanders from what I've read have standing orders to destroy any enemy SSBN that begins the process of opening its missile tubes (unless it is part of a previously notified exercise

Well, no. Not instantly. And that's my whole point.

If (when) the submarine was detected, it would be intercepted and watched by an American submarine. But we don't have submarines everywhere; the ocean is really, really big. We'd need time to (1) recognize the threat, (2) issue orders to the closest submarine, and (3) allow our submarine to intercept.

Now, replace the ocean with space, and the SSBN with an armed starship. As big as the ocean is, space is much, much, much, MUCH bigger. You couldn't have starships covering the whole thing. So, you'd need to define an area of space around your world such that (1) you could detect an adversary entering it, and (2) you'd have time to maneuver a defensive asset to intercept it, and (3) you could do this BEFORE the ship got into weapons range of your world.

That space that you've defined?

THAT is your border in space.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Edit: I looked it up: in "Whom Gods Destroy," it's a transporter shield. It isn't meant to protect the facility from bombardment, only to keep the inmates from being snatched away from orbit.

And yet it does defeat the Enterprise's main phasers even on narrow beam.

I wonder why they didn't fire phasers on narrow beam more often? The only times I remember are here and in "The Paradise Syndrome"

By the way, look up the Atomic Rockets homepage that looks at the real life use of technology.

It points out that "stealth in space is impossible".

The space shuttle main engines can be detected from the orbit of Pluto.

The space shuttle maneuvering thrusters can be detected from the orbit of Mars.

Even running with no engines of any kind operating, the life support systems of a spaceship stand out against the cold, dark vacuum of space like a lighthouse.

If asteroids a hundred meters across can approach Earth and not be detected until a few days before they pass by, I'm sure a spaceship could be made suitably stealthy.

I would like to interrupt this discussion to make the following announcement:



That is all.

Special hell.

Endless quotes without an instant nerd factor attached.

Asteroids are not generating power or radiating heat.

You know. Here is one really really great thing about Firefly right here^^^!

Another is this dialogue:
Simon: What happens if the Reavers board us?
Zoë: If they take the ship they will rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing, and if we're very, very lucky, they’ll do it in that order.

However, this thread is stupid and pointless because he hasn't bothered to watch the show. Watch all the episodes and the movie. If you don't like it, that would be the time ask others why we like it and you don't.

Isn't that the same as suggesting a person has to watch all the episode of Star Trek: Voyager or Enterprise in order to criticize them?

No, it isn't the same because you only watched 2 shows and that's not enough. There are only 14 episodes and 1 movie so I'm not asking you to watch 100 shows. The whole thing is like a self contained story.

Why don't you list specific things about what you watched that you didn't like?

Generating power, no. Radiating heat? Actually, yes. As they approach the sun, they warm up considerably more than the background of space.

And sufficiently advanced technology can take waste heat and project it away (as a laser or microwaves) from the planet it's approaching. A camoflaged ship could also approach from the direction of the sun to further mask itself.

But what I'm saying about borders in space doesn't rely on stealth approaches. National borders are not made obsolete by stealth technology, for instance. The inability to control against one type of threat does eliminate the need to control against others.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php

Just watch the show.

You'll defer to @Kyle's expertise then?

Someone 'shop Deadpool into the background!

/Thread