Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by We Are Borg, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    Meh.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,431
    Ratings:
    +82,265
    Yeah, but how long was it until the writer's really starting hitting it out of the ballpark for Capaldi's Doctor?
    Mid second season or so, I'd say.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    I'm mostly enjoying the new series. It's just not feeling very Dr Who at the moment.

    This weeks was a paint-by-numbers job. 'Uman rights at t'mill? T'owtamahted mill? By gum! By eck! Them Amazon types have got them Luddites reet worked oop.

    I know they're not wanting to use traditional enemies of the Doctor, but it turning out to have been an enslaved Cyber Leader asking for help could've been a nice flip - the Cybermen as the victims for once. Or as Matt says, bringing back the Nestene.

    Don't know what's missing, I mean all the ingredients are there for a great Dr Who series - social commentary, bit of history, bit of horror.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,718

    And yet, that describes The Sun Makers perfectly. No real enemies except human greed. Perhaps we're jaded to "humans are the real monsters"? Which is bad because we haven't stopped.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    There wasn't even any greed in the story. The main gripe was machines were taking work from people.

    Oh no. People have time to paint, write poetry, pursue other interests than commute to work, do work, commute home and watch shit reality TV instead of interacting with their family and friends.

    Yeah, very fucking fiendish.

    I mean switch robots for immigrants and it was Dr UKIP. There was even a bit about work improving lives - which it does if, say, you're 1970's China and most of your population are uneducated farmers and the only less economically developed area is inhabited entirely by penguins. A couple of generations working in shitholes means the grandkids can be surgeons, accountants and web designers. I don't really buy it when you've a transporter even Scotty would be jealous of though.

    It was just a bit messy. Someone in the writers room obviously came up with a couple of half baked ideas about Amazon and automation, they got glued together, and by the time filming came along you had something still not fully baked.

    Maybe if Kerblam had been automating other worlds, purposefully turning their populations into Eloi-like societies for nefarious ends?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,025
    Ratings:
    +47,879
    I severely doubt those unemployed humans were having a good time. They were probably struggling to get by on welfare, if welfare even existed. Judging from the foreign workers I've known, presumably anyone on that moon with a family was sending most of their salary back home. :shrug:
  7. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,025
    Ratings:
    +47,879
    The writers knew exactly how to use plots, speeches and music cues to make Smith an inspiring hero from his first episode, they intentionally withheld all of that from most of Capaldi's first season stories. Flatline was the first time I recall feeling like Capaldi heroically saved the day.

    With Whittaker it seems like they're trying to keep her as inoffensive as possible to avoid any predictable backlash. It's similar to what they did with McCoy back in the day. :async:
  8. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,832
    With respect, if you think that is in anyway comparable to McCoy you really don’t know the show’s history so best not to use that emoticon. If you want to know why the Doctor changed in the final two seasons of classic Who google “Cartmel Masterplan”. JNT didn’t have some grand plan going in to season 24.

    And Whittaker is already getting a backlash, and it’s not for being female but indeed not being Doctorish. Being the first female Doctor Chibnall can’t wait an entire season to make her feel like she fits the part. This is even more relevant if the industry rumours of them both leaving after the next season are to be believed.
  9. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    If 90% of everything is automated, costs are likely minimal. Machines mine. Machines build. Machines look after machines. Humans wrap and scrub the toilets.

    Costs are pretty much down to power and material, borderline post-scarcity society. A Ferrari is probably pennies.

    Just doesn't add up. You can only get away with things like that if they're purposefully irreverent these days, I expect a little better from Nu Who.

    Hell, if they wanted to mine a greed line have Kerblam having vertically integrated the whole supply chain (like Amazon are actually trying to do by the looks of things) and then screw everyone on cost.

    I'm a bit weary of lazy writing.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,431
    Ratings:
    +82,265
    :bullshit:
    :pathead:
    :diacanu:
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  11. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Yes, this.

    A good story could be told about a society that, while affluent due to automation, still clings to the old labour model, creating a destitute class looking for meaningless work in order to earn their keep. That's not so far removed from a problem we are about to come up against. But then the story can't be solved by rising the human workforce to 50%. A better script would have required someone writing about future labour conflicts who had an interest in saying something about future labour conflicts. AKA, Science Fiction.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,431
    Ratings:
    +82,265
    Hey, Capaldi had fucking "kill the moon".
    As long as Whitaker's stay above that bar, we're good.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,131
    Ratings:
    +37,385
    hypothesis: Whitaker being female is a problem but not in the obvious sense, but that the writers haven't gotten a handle on how to write her in the swashbuckling somewhat arrogant white-knight bravado that they had a habit of doing with male actors lest they (in their worries) fuck up and make her come across as bitchy or some other female stereotype.

    That is, they are afraid to write her the way they might have written hr recent predecssors.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    I'm obviously prejudiced...only started watching nuWho because of Capaldi. Try watching it a second time. It gets better. I may do that with Whittaker, but I don't like Chibnall's writing, not for this (S1 and S2 of Broadchurch, yeah, but S3 was also meh). Demons of the Punjab was good because someone else wrote it. :shrug:
  15. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    Possible. But think of any of the women in The West Wing (except Amy the Whiner). Even lil Annabel had gumption. Nancy McNally? Oh, yeah.
  16. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,718
    The Witchfinders (AKA tracking down that asshole at Amazon that leaked the episode a week early).

    A pseudo-historical this week - not afraid again to show us a dark period in human history with a ducking stool death (despite the Doctor's intervention) and 35 other women having been accused of witchery. Alan Cumming is on hand as James I to lighten the mood with some extreme hamminess, although he gets some good quiet moments to show he's largely either putting on a front or buying his own hype.

    I was worried for a mo that we were going to get a "no-one's fault except the scared humans" story, but there are indeed bad guys here - up to three (depending on how you feel about James) main ones for the Doctor to rail against or try to convince to be better.

    Once again, the show is relying on characters and our ability to relate to them. Yaz gets more to do this week interacting with a scared young girl and correctly identifying her "sickness" as not medical or due to alien activity, but psychological fears caused by the thought that she has no allies among the townsfolk - much as Yaz herself once felt totally isolated due to a prolonged bullying incident at school.

    And if you predicted that the Doctor would end up being accused of witchcraft, well... you and everyone else.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  17. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    No, excuse me; it's the writing. :bailey:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    32,366
    Location:
    Lancaster UK
    Ratings:
    +10,668
    Average to good ep I thought.
    And a lot of it seemed a bit familiar :) I can drive 15 miles to see Pendle hill. The Pendle witches were tried and hanged here, they had their last drink in a pub I go in often :)
    • Love Love x 1
  19. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    Better. Nice scary monster. Still tired of the "but you're a girl" motif, but this one wasn't bad. Consistent with history, too, in the sense that James did give up his witch-hunting.
  20. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,718
    Apart from the Rosa ep, I haven't seen much "but you're a girl" stuff. Even the Trump stand-in didn't seem to ignore the Doctor because of gender but because of his own arrogance. The Indian ep had the Doctor left out of the boys' hut during the wedding prep, but that would have just been flipped for Capaldi (who would have sent in Clara or Bill instead of Graham and Ryan). The other episodes have either had accepting characters like the companions or future human(oids) who are past sexism (but not racism, it seems).
  21. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    What I meant was that The Doctor can't help reminding us that she's a girl, both in words and deeds. JMO. :shrug:

    BTW, nice performance by O'Brien from Downton Abbey, and predictably hammy by Cumming. :)
  22. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Yes, but if I had spent more than two millennia as a man and only been a woman for six months, I might mention it now and again as well. It's still less than the Capaldi doctor mentioned his own eyebrows.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    Oh, seriously. The "attack eyebrows" in "Deep Breath" (a wonderful play on Scottish independence, if you listen closely) and when else? Other characters may have mentioned them, but not 12 that I recall.
  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,431
    Ratings:
    +82,265
    And then the first period kicks in, and it's like "okay, novelty has warn off, I want out of this! :(".
    :diacanu:
    • teh baba teh baba x 1
  25. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    I remember how many of you were whining about the River Song story arc. It bothered me a lot less than the Amy/Rory "eternal love" saga. And it ended (or began?) at the Towers of Darillium. Lovely. Again, good writing + good performance = magic.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  26. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    I loved the Towers, and the only thing that really bothers me about the whole River Song story is that I still can't figure out what the hell happened at Lake Silencio. But I'm not complaining; I'm just saying I see no reason to complain about the new Doctor mentioning she's female a bit either.

    I do think the writing has been hit and miss so far though, and while Whitaker can do great things, she plays the Doctor very one-note -- everything is breathless emphasis. Surely she has more different emotions than that?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    ^Lake Silencio is only one of many things I don't understand about nuWho. I just roll with it. Always more interested in performance than timey-wimey stuff.
  28. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,718
    Silencio is a complex attempt to force the Doctor's "scripted" death to change from Trenzalore (where Kovarian's faction got fed up fighting him and anyone else who showed up trying to find the Time Lords) to Silencio by having River both commit and witness the Doctor's murder. But she buggered with it anyway, disabling the suit's blasters. Since she'd already seen it happen, it became a paradox and time went wibbly.

    The Doctor put stuff back on track by convincing her to go through with events as witnessed.

    The paradox though WASN'T that she'd seen the Doctor die and then refused to murder him. It was that she'd seen herself SHOOT and then didn't. That had to happen, not least because the Doctor had already met versions of River who were in jail for his murder. That he fooled everyone into thinking he was dead using the Tesselecta is besides the point.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  29. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,718
    Anyhoo.

    SCARF ALERT!!!!

    Ds7qUs1XgAATVbU.jpg

    New Year's Special costume update!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    :whacko: