The 2024 Presidential Primary Election thread

A. That presumes that Bloomberg just gave the cash such that it could be traced to him by the time of the debates, which is not a particularly likely thing. I'm sure Bloomberg could route cash to Biden (or whoever) any number of different ways without his fingerprints being so obvious (at least at first)

B. The things that people opened up on Bloomberg for were being a more competent version of Donald Trump. (I didn't bother watching many of the debates this entire campaign seaason, but the clip of Warren rendering Bloomberg to a smouldering pile was something I heard about.). I don't think campaign funding is really going to resonate in the same way.

So is AOC.

The Democrats need a younger Warren, and AOC isn't it.

Why not?

For the same reason that people are always complaining about the quality of candidates the parties are offering: because primaries are won in the extremities, but general elections are won in the middle.

In the primaries, a candidate on either side who is seen as too close to the other side is not usually popular with party. They will attract the votes of those who are looking to the general, but those who are the most concerned about their party's ideals won't like them.

But in the general election, a candidate will carry most of the diehards of his own party, no matter which way he leans within the party, but it is the 20 or 30 percent of "swing voters" in the middle who will actually determine the election: those who might vote either way, depending on who is on the ballot.

That has been the Republicans' strategy in this election. Basically, their message comes down to: "Trump might be an extremist, but Joe Biden is an even more dangerous extremist — he is a socialist/communist who will destroy America!"

If they do that with Joe Biden, of all people, can you imagine what they would do with someone like AOC, especially if they had a candidate who was more palatable to the masses than Donald Trump?

I don't know about that.

She's an extremely effective communicator, and she's willing to take on public relations battles that Democrats have conceded for years. For instance, whenever some Republican starts lying about the tax rate people would pay under a Democratic plan, the normal Democratic politician's response is to hide in a corner. AOC shifts into "teacher mode" and actually gets people into a discussion about marginal tax rates.

Frankly, I wish AOC could do town halls in every suburb and purple area in the country. Let people interact one-on-one with HER, not the media stereotype of her. She is smart, well-spoken, always has her facts, and knows how to present them.

They are going to scream socialist for any Democrat. Apparently that scared enough people in Florida to not vote for Biden. They did the same thing with Obama. Remember he was the Moslem Socialist.

In that case I’d rather have one that is actually going to work for progressive policies that would help people versus those who just want to keep their corporate donors happy.

If general elections are won in the middle how does that explain 2016? Hillary Clinton is about as middle of the road as they come. I’d argue she lost by not bringing out her base whereas Trump’s base came out in full force. Extremist Tea Party candidates also helped Republicans win back Congress during the Obama years.

And that kind of thinking got us trump.

I'd say it's time to stop that kind of thinking. AOC is not an extremist. Her views are actually very normal and exactly what most people want. Just because the media paints someone is extremist, doesn't mean they actually are.

AOC is also a deluded child with no understanding of economics. She may mature out of it as she gains experience in how things, y'know, actually work in the real world, but for now she'd get shredded in the general election.

You keep bitching about AOC, yet you've never given any specific instances in which you accuse her of having shortcomings. Care to share an example now? or are you just upset that a young, independent woman of Hispanic descent is so much fucking smarter than you?

Can't disagree with you on any of that. But try convincing 150 million American voters of it. You will find it very difficult.

In theory, I would vote for a candidate who favors open borders, universal health care, and emergency measures to deal with the pandemic, burning fossil fuels and polluting the oceans. I'm that much of an extremist. But I wouldn't favor the Democrats putting up that kind of candidate, because it would just mean handing victory to the Republicans.

If AOC were actually smarter than me (or at all smart to begin with) she wouldn't hold most of the positions she does. That you of all people think she's smart is kind of telling.

Moron.

Open borders is a non-starter. There's a process for immigration and you don't get to line-jump. The process is in need of drastic overhaul, but "open borders" is not acceptable.
Universal health care is coming. The insurance industry is stupiding itself into making that happen.
Emergency measures for the pandemic would have already happened under a President other than the orange moron.
Pollution and the climate change it is causing is the major issue confronting humanity. There are actually some fairly straighforward solutions, but of course it means short-term hardship for long-term benefit, and that ain't how human beans are wired.

I don't think so. I think voters are smarter than that and deserve more credit. I think, that because the parties feel this way is why voters don't vote.

I have always had a problem with the theory that all those who disagree with me are necessarily less intelligent than I am. Such a claim flows from the worst kind of intellectual arrogance. There are posters right here on this board with whom I have serious disagreements on some issues, but whose intelligence I would never permit myself to call into question.

Yes, I agree, but in the case of AOC she holds views that are demonstrably wrong and when put in to practice have historically resulted in disaster. She's one of the "this will work if the right people are in charge" types, who are among the most worrisome of all politicians.

That's because the media is owned and run by people who won't tolerate it.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is strong with you.

Oh kettle! Thou art black!

But at least she is young, talks to younger people in their language and will of course mainstream her stuff before she takes aim at the Oval.

Anyway.

I'd lay money that the 2024 Democratic candidate is gonna be Kamala Harris. I sincerely doubt Biden will seek a second term. The Republicans will likely go for an old-line return to base candidate. Not someone who's already run and lost, like Mitt, but maybe Jeb Bush or one'a the more prominent governors.

They do the whole red scare thing anyway. Even when the Democrats run conservative establishment figures like John Kerry and Joe Biden.

AOC has a B.A. in economics from Boston College, IIRC. And yes, one can say college is overrated, yadda yadda. But just because she takes positions that you might not agree with doesn't mean she is ignorant of economics.

My guess is that if she makes a good long career in politics, her time will come. Someone with her positions could be elected fairly easily in a lot of European countries and in 20 or 30 years, she could well be considered mainstream, for Democrats. But 2024, in the USA? Not a chance, IMO.

And they do it for a reason -- it resonates with a lot of their base voters while progressives are like, "I wish I could vote for the Joe Biden and Kamala Harris that the Republicans keep warning us about."

Totally a chance.

AOC connects with young people in a way that the mainstream Dems do not. She could pull back the Latinx vote that Biden/Harris didn't not do so great at capturing. I could see Harris choosing her as a VP candidate, and I could see her running against Harris in the primary.

I swear to Pete, "Latinx" is why Trump did so well among Hispanics.

It's DUMB. And aesthetically displeasing to boot.

As a general principle, you are correct. In the specific case of AOC, she's an idiot. A college educated idiot is still an idiot, or does your view not apply when we're talking about someone like, I dunno, Thomas Sowell?

Based on personal observation, I can't say I disagree.

Thomas Sowell is not an idiot. I can disagree with his views, and yet realize that he's a smart person, or at least, not an actively stupid one.