All done with the series, fantastic. Hey Disney and Paramount, this how you have a female protagonist without going woke and undercutting your male lead.
My ex-wife has zero control over my life, but I like how you had to make this personal in Media Central.
Oh, it’s not personal. It’s about your entire group. I despise incels. And I didn’t say your ex-wife currently has any control over you, I’m saying that’s why she divorced you.
meh... you made it political. anyways... let's get back to maybe the fifth thing in the 'verse me and UA agree upon, which is that Fallout was awesome.
First off, I'm not an incel, I get laid. Second, that's not why we got divorced. Third, I hardly ever play video games and when we were married I played video games when she was not around and sometimes we played games together. Fourth, I left her, not the other way around. Fifth, you made it personal by talking about my ex-wife. Lastly, don't presume to know anything about me and my personal life. You don't like it when @Tererune makes up shit about you and @Uncle Albert , don't make shit up about me and my personal life.
So I came to this with the mantra "Everything Nolan produces is good" (at least all of it that I've seen) and I am not ready to say I was wrong but... among his work that I've seen I liked this least - but I did like it. What redeemed it for me was the flashback stories that ties the "current" characters to the 50's(?) even if that did necessarily involve invoking the "massive corporation is obviously evil" trope. The connection is particularly necessary with Cooper. I liked that they took a few scenes to do things like explain (by showing) how you get ghouls (not radiation after all) and where the power armor originated. BUT STILL... I think it would have been a much better show if it was a stand-alone franchise that had no connection to the tropes from the game. Maybe with less "humor" - but the humor was mostly the weakest aspect of the show for me.
There is no one male lead in this show. What makes you say that Lucy isn't undercutting Maximus/Cooper or whoever, but the women in whatever Disney/Paramount property/properties you might pick are undercutting the men in those properties? If anything, I would say Lucy is more of a Mary Sue than most of the women you typically complain about. She is depicted with very few flaws, if any, besides her naivete, and her naivete is basically does not harm her and is indeed portrayed as a character strength that she will cling to her Vault-taught morality even though the real world is full of objectively evil or at least questionable people. Despite being completely unfamiliar with the surface world and ill-equipped mentally, emotionally, ethically and every other wise to handle the surface, she manages to survive and thrive in most situations and is basically the only pure shining beacon of goodness in the show. The woman we are told is evil is apparently good after all, and basically every male character is ethically compromised or flatout evil. What makes Fallout in your mind "not woke"?
Because she wasn't an insufferable know-it-all who is automatically better at everything and spares no opportunity to complain about how she is a victim of terrible male behavior. "Can you supply an example of a character with those exact measurable traits?" Sure!
Regardless of whether or not FF realizes it, the reason is simple. 100+/- years of Hollywood portraying women as …. some …. set aesthetic designed specifically to be the sole reason “our hero” must risk his life to save her - basically, one of many male fantasies where women are concerned. Slowly, since the 80s, Hollywood has started writing female characters like actual women. Now, producers want to get the other half of the market - women. So they’re writing movies the same way they’ve traditionally written movies but now the script is written so the woman must save the man. And insecure little girly-men can’t handle it. They fight and complain and bring up a few movies in recent years that show strong women, but what they really want is more movies that show women running away and screaming “I need a man!!:
Lucy is no more average or flawed at anything than Burnham, Carol Danvers, She-Hulk or any other woman character that generally people's gears grinding. And while Burnham and so forth have reasons to be excellent generally speaking (pretty much every Starfleet main character across all series are Renaissance people who have almost no flaws, for example), there is little reason Lucy should be able to navigate the surface world as well as she does, other than "because the plot demands it." She sets out on a quest to find her father with no real knowledge of the surface world, no particular idea where the raiders might have taken him, and no apparent plan other than asking random strangers if they might have seen him or the raiders. Despite this, and despite hostile conditions and people, she succeeds in her quest with barely a scratch. She is shown to be better than multiple guys (the raider she beats up, her coward brother and the dumb cousin who is in love with her.) She is a victim of terrible male behavior in that she allowed the raider to have sex with her under false pretenses. Is the difference that Lucy is typically upbeat in the face of the terrible things that happen to her?
Did we have to listen to paint-by-numbers victimhood rants about how she has to control her anger better than any man? Was her full power being held back by some controlling male? Did she have to explain everyone else's job to them, correcting them at every crisis, especially the men? Did she dominate every fistfight with men twice her size? Did she blame "men" in general for her problems. No she fucking did not. Deny reality all you want. There IS a difference.
The character did not really rant about anything because it's not in her nature to rant. She remains wildly upbeat about everything despite having just cause to be super-upset. She consents to sex under false pretenses (that the raider was really from a neighboring vault and they were going to be husband and wife), which is not consent at all. Numerous people she knows are killed or wounded. Her father is kidnapped. She scarcely complains about any of these things. Lucy doesn't have any "power," per se, but her father was a controlling male who lied to her and the community. So yes, a controlling male murdered her mother, nuked Shady Springs, and stopped her from having a life apart from him. Another controlling male -- the mind behind Vault-Tec -- seemingly is behind the nuking of the world and the subsequent misery for the sake of profits. So the top big bads seem to be male, and I don't think there is a single male character who is unquestionably heroic. Maybe the guy Michael Emerson played, but he was quickly dead. There don't seem to be any women who are unquestionably evil, and a few who seem to be good. It seems like Fallout is as guilty of the implicit message of saying "men are evil and women are good" as any other media one could name. Lucy constantly is explaining to Maximus and Coop that they are wrong in how they are approaching things. Admittedly, sometimes the show has her being objectively wrong (such as when she trusts the fiends when they say that they aren't armed) She bossed around her brother and her cousin. There's not a ton of fist-fighting in Fallout, but yep, Lucy got the best of men who were bigger than her. She also was better at gunfighting than most, as shown by her surviving Coop where he managed to take out an entire town and her taking out the organ harvesters. She's not a blaming person, and she didn't really talk about her problems all that much. But are men responsible for her problems? Hell yeah. So I'm not sure what the difference is that makes her more acceptable than the other characters like She-Hulk, Burnham or Capt. Marvel, other than she's upbeat despite the many ways men screw her over.
I don't know what show YOU were watching, but your rationalizing is VERY thin. I didn't say she was the "damsel in distress" trope. Just that she wasn't some obnoxious girl boss, written by hack political activists who think "Men bad! " is incisive artful commentary. Maybe pay the fuck attention to the shows you are watching.
it is stated during her intro chapter that she'd been accomplished in target shooting and (I think it was) judo. I think the Ghoul and Lucy are on the same path at different points, and her recognizing this is which is why the ending. He was her before the bombs (and delving into V-T's shenanigans); comfortable and complacent, but also capable.
Lucy’s issue is naïveté. I don’t think Cooper was naive before the bombs dropped, just a decent guy. I think he took to Lucy because she is so different from her father and he thinks he can be a better role model for her.
wow, that is WAY more detail than I could ever hope to digest, but thanks. Meanwhile I'm marveling at the apparent "woke/not woke" bullshit I have muted but leaks out in replies... Someone here is apparently rationalizing a story built on the premise of evil big business capitalist literally blowing up the world for profit being the bad guys and it's still...NOT woke. Alrighty then.
To be clear, I have no problem with Lucy being good at all these things, just like I have no problem with Burnham or Carol or She-Hulk (or Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter or Kirk or whoever) being super-good at lots of stuff, having no real flaws, etc. I'm just curious why Lucy gets a pass for being supremely good at these things when Burnham and the rest are attacked as unrealistic, woke, etc.
Asking questions like this only serves his purpose - that if you’re asking the question, it provides legitimacy to the question. The truth is, Hollywood is now writing female characters the way traditionally male characters have been portrayed - invincable, savior, hero. And men are being portrayed the way women have - defenseless, needy, crazy. And men do not like it. FF is as full of shit as the Critical Drinker.
This greatly oversimplified it. Every creation is unique to some degree, even if there are commonalities.
Lucy routinely gets her ass handed to her in ways that the typical Girl Boss (tm) does not. You will deny this, of course.
Really? Ms Marvel is practically line by line of the first Toby Maguire Spider-Man movie. Yet, that movie is loved and Ms Marvel is woke. Tell me, why is that?
I wouldn't say Lucy "routinely" got her ass handed to her, and I wouldn't say it happened more frequently than it did to Burnham, Rey or whoever else you would like to compare her to. Lucy's fights, from memory, are as follows: Vs. Raider who married her under false pretense, round 1: Win Vs. Multiple raiders: Win x 3-5; also seems to be the only one having much success defending the vault, as her brother hides and others are killed Vs. Raider who married her under false pretenses, round 2: Loss, gets bailed out by Dad. Vs. Coop: Loss, but he's literally superhuman and a notorious bad-ass who's centuries old and who has waxed at least a half-dozen people on screen. The fact that she is still breathing after an encounter with him is telling. Vs. robot, organ donors and multiple ghouls: Win. Feel free to add any fights where Lucy lost, and to explain why those are different from the times that Rey, Capt. Marvel or whoever also lost.
