We are not talking about Afghanistan. We are talking about X. Your entire misunderstanding of the initial post hinges on that.
I guess you could include all those museums, libraries, hospitals, and schools that Western organizations have donated money too, and often times rebuilt. But hey, keep spinning. Which is why its even more stranger that you still believe the Taliban pose a serious threat to the country. Again, to the point where you think they could impede progress. She must have sent you nude pictures. What the fuck is that supposed to mean? 9/11 happened because the Taliban was giving safe haven to Al Queda who were able to train and house terrorists there while they got ready. There is no more Taliban that makes any significant difference, and from all accounts, Al Queda is also in complete disarray. Just how exactly are they going to create another attack that would be proportional to 9/11? They can't even do anything in Afghanistan outside of blowing up a few market places with suicide bombers. And even that is happening less and less.
I agree, but I doubt we're talking about the same people. I don't always agree with Cass, but I don't like people putting words in her mouth.
What took you so long? I don't suppose you'd want to be objective and realize that this is not a troll, any more than the other one was? Oh, right. In your world, everything is a troll. So why even bother to participate?
Nobody put words in her mouth. She said it all herself. Apparently you missed the post that 'Noir' quoted....again.
Oh well. If I wouldn't know better and I wanted to post whore some more I'd say you were evading the subject again.
Where she said they'd be a problem, but she didn't say that the Afghani people shouldn't try, or that they couldn't possibly succeed?
Okay, now. Here's my problem. If I leave the thread, I'm evading. If I stay, you claim I'm trolling. Given those two choices, what would you do?
The real problem here is that all of you are right to a certain extent. She clearly wishes them well...she clearly is ambivilant about whether it is workable....but she also clearly does mention that the Taliban and making them mad is one of the potential problems in it succeeding, along with that sort of planned community being less than awesome elsewhere. The tone is optimistically ambivilant. Reading comprehension is becoming a lost skill.
And her mention of the fact that the Taliban will get 'pissed' off is my problem. They can't even do anything now....why would things suddenly change if Afghanistan built a city?
I personally don't think they would be much of an issue...the military presence over there and their dwindling numbers, I think, would certainly keep things under control. Doesn't mean it's impossible that they might get ambitious if suitably angered, just unlikely.
This thread is either a. An example for a bad, bad troll where the troll himself looks like a fool or b. an example of how conservative black/white thinking closes the mind. What's it gonna be, boy? Are you blind or trolling? I'll simply rule out stupid by now given how many times my post has been explained to you. But good job on destroying what could have been a good thread. It's not like we don't have an abundance of bullshit right now, we sure needed one more. And Tamar hit the nail on the head. I think it's a good thing that they are trying to get active. On the other hand I think that this country is still so unstable that long term planning is pretty much useless. I'd go for it step by step: get rid of the Taliban - get rid of the warlords and the opium - start rebuilding for real. Personally, I'd prefer if it was done under UN government and not by local politicians as I simply don't trust those. The country will also require more foreign troops to secure it.
It's amazing, though, how you can trust the UN with its history but you don't trust governments that are legitimately so if they make a mistake or two.
Aurora clearly says that she wishes them well, but that it's a bad idea because something like this might make the Taliban mad. That is not optimistically ambivalent. That would be 'I think this will do well, but I don't really care if it does.' This is pessimistically charitable. 'I am sure this is a bad idea, but I wish the people well.' 30 years is a long time. I think an optimistic view is that there wouldn't be an ongoing war there for the next three decades.
Troll. Why would you see things just exactly like she said it? Not too mention her complete flip-flop in the middle of the thread. Everyone bow down to Cass.
Yes, you really did make yourself look like a fool. First you deny saying something, then later on you admit it. Originally you said it can't be done, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't, now you're saying 'its pretty much useless.' It just keeps getting better and better. Again, follow along here since you're too fucking stupid to go find it out by yourself. Every year, the Taliban makes a push to drive back the NATO/allied forces. And every year they lose more and more ground, equipment, men, etc, etc. They have already publicly mentioned numerous targets that they want blown up, yet so far they haven't accomplished a damn thing. So if they can't even blow up a fucking 'dam'....what makes you think they could inhibit progress of something like this? Plus, we're not even talking about the psychological advantage of kicking the Taliban in the nuts and rebuilding the country despite the minuscule threat they pose. Nothing says 'screw you' more to the terrorists than ignoring them, BECAUSE they are such a small problem, and planning ahead into the future and rebuilding your country. The only reason one would NOT do that, would be because they think Afghanistan is destined to fail. Obviously you do. Yeah, because Cass has been to Afghanistan and knows how the Afghani government works..
Clearly would should pull out any remnants of a Western presence, so as to stop them from pissing off the Taliban because they might blow shit up. Cause you know all those McDonald's and Tim Horten's....well, they just PISS OFF the fucking Taliban. And we don't want that. Or Cass doesn't at least. Afghanistan should just QUIT rebuilding their own country, and focus on killing the Taliban.
My own opinion is, who cares if they get pissed? Giving in and holding back progress hands them more power...you must deal with them when they raise their ugly heads, plan for them to make an attempt but don't stop what your doing and wallow in fear. That is exactly what they want, because they don't have the power and resources to do much more themselves. Most terrorism is real life trolling...it is the threat of it they depend on to get their way.
Pretty much. The risks of planning and carrying out a development of this sort is exactly the thing that's involved in the process of creating a new country out of what's been a failure for too long. We can't magically get from here to there (unless the Good Witch wants to help .) It's going to take some risk taking to make it happen and it's taken a while now just to get investors thinking it could even work.
I'm out of rep, but quoted for another clear-eyed view of (A) the project described in the OP, and (B) the OP itself.
To my mind she is saying that developement is a good thing, but that this might not be the best kind of developement. Which makes perfect sense. As to the whole planned cities thing, you've got to kinda agree. Even the U.S. which is a little bit ahead of Afghanistan in every way has not had the best of luck with planned cities. Which kinda makes sense if you think about it. A command economy never produces the right balance of goods and services why should a command city?
