An Important Complaint Against Faceman

I'm actually wondering whether Tamar and Ancalagon are behind it all.

As I've already suggested, banning Packard is the only way to resolve these questions. Skinofevil, ought to be banned too, now that we have established the Fucko rule.

Vlad was not 'rigging' the poll as the owner himself said that was part of the point of the contest, to drive traffic to the page.

No, the mods can't patrol the entire internet, but when shit like this involving one of our members is brought to their attention, they can deal with it then (assuming of course they have a way of figuring out who did it).

Is the kind of person who would go try and fuck with other people's professional life the kind of person we want here? That goes above and beyond the normal trolling that gets bans here. Like Ted stalking people and posting stuff on other sites we don't need a rule to cover every which way someone can cross the line. Some things any normal person can KNOW is just WRONG and if they don't they are not someone I want around.

How did it mess with his professional life and how is it "clearly" playing with personal information? It's information that he willingly gave up. While I agree it was a dick move, I'm not seeing why there is a need to ban anyone over this. You're all overreacting and need to take a step back and look at this rationally.

a) No harm came of this
b) By reacting like this you are falling hook, line, and sinker for this troll
c) (most importantly) Vlad already asked that the issue be dropped. If he no longer has a problem with it, why the fuck should you care? I take it you have issue with someone using the name Tamar? Do you hold copyright over that name?

Vlad is a graphic artist. Someone tried to sabotage a chance for him to get his work published.

No actual harm came, but the intent was there.

Yes, they are getting a reaction but if banned it won't be one they were looking for.

There was never any chance of his professional image being tarnished, especially in a poll that allowed people to vote every day. Anyone with a basic understanding of the internet realizes that polls like this are designed to drive traffic to the website and increase publicity for the product. If anything, it had the potential to improve Vlad's professional image by driving traffic to this website none of us would have ever heard of otherwise. Whoever did this was clearly trolling and reasoned that no harm could come from it, other than the hilarious overreaction provided by Vlad, Tamar, and yourself.

Tamar is now playing the moral compass of WF's personal information rule. Am I on acid?

I'm still not clear on the personal info violation. No one posted personal information in the red room. Nocturnal posted a thread in the red room inviting, no, begging people from this website to go over to another website and vote for him! (In a poll so legitimate that anyone can vote in it daily regardless of association with the artist in question.) He gave away the personal information. No one else did. So that's the end of that debate.

And that surprise is feigned that someone invited from the Red Room to vote in the poll would also post on that board is laughable. Especially when the post in question basically told a truth that made Nocturne uncomfortable.

Tamar is just sore that her name is associated with loosely playing with other poster's feelings and personal information via the internet in a way that bends but doesn't violate the rules.

Oh wait. That's what she does all the time. So why aren't we looking at Tamar for this SERIOUS INFRACTION? Her name's all over this one!

Has anyone here ever posted on another forum and trolled a person on that other forum? Have you been punished here for your conduct there? No. Well, case fucking closed.

No, brining drama is never good. Luckily the owner didn't care that much and just deleted all the posts, but the fact remains someone basically went to Vlad's place of business and tried to stir up shit. Things could have been bad.

Regardless of how it ended up, the intent was to fuck up Vlad's real life work. Not cool. Not fucking cool.

This kind of bullshit needs to stomped on and stomped hard.

What if it had been a phone call? What if someone had called another members place of work and tried to stir up shit for that person? If it were possible to trace that call do you not think that person needs to be banned? Is that the kind of person you want posting on WF?

"And if you do get raped, just take it easy and enjoy it..."

Or something like that...

If we combine this with Lanzman's suggestion on replacing everyone's custom titles, that would give a very good justification for banning everybody.

Wordforge would sure be calm then!

It's the equivalent of someone posting the phone number of their workplace in the Red Room, inviting posters to call that number, and then one poster from Wordforge making a prank phone call. a) it's relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things and b) it's stupid to invite the Red Room into your work environment.

It depends on the circumstances. See above. If, however, someone obtained another poster's work phone number in some other manner, you would have a point.

It's years ago now, but I seem to remember when I met Mewa that he said he'd done something like that in the past (although not to anyone from WF, possibly Trekbbs). Mind you, I could be wrong on the specifics, it was about 7-8 years ago now.

Point is that I just couldn't understand why someone would want to do such a thing. What is there to be gained from being an arsehole to someone in Rl just for the sake of it?

You are making it sound as if Nocturne somehow did something wrong. But what he did was explicitly within the rules and intent of the contest. I don't know what you think you're trying to prove by trying to put him in a bad light for doing exactly what he was allowed and even encouraged to do by the board in question, but you are just making yourself look like you are in favor of "blaming the victim" when you do it.

It turns out that this won't cause him any problems in his personal and professional life, which is very good, but that was clearly the intent. And it was done using Tamar's name to try to make it even more pernicious. That is much more than just trolling, and should not be allowed. If the person can be identified, he (or she, but personally I doubt the need for that pronoun very much) should be banned for a good long time. Personally, I would say a year or more. Long enough to make it very clear that trying to mess up someone's personal life is not just "Red Room trolling" and is not what Wordforge is about.

Your pretense that it is partly his fault for letting people know about that particular aspect of his personal life amounts to giving a free pass to anyone who uses personal information to try to hurt someone in RL. "Well, they are responsible, too for having given out that information."

And it's not just me...I don't believe for one minute Faceman posted the one left there today in his name either.

Again, 'bitch was asking for it' excuse doesn't fly with me. Vlad needed people's help, so he asked for it. Don't want to help, don't fucking vote for him, or vote for someone if your life is really that pathetic you need to fuck with complete strangers lives for your jollies.

BUT don't call and try to get the person fired. That is CLEARLY across the line and if you lack the moral compass to see that, if you need a rule to tell you not to be a complete fucko then you don't need to be on WF.

Yet it seems it's ok for someone to manipulate and use personal information against people as long as it's on the board and the personal has either released it, or a victim doesn't acknowledge that it's their info (citation - Raygate!).

One of the things that stopped me coming here for a while was that I realised that certain people on here were not just Red Room trolls who messed about on WF. They were actually people who were proper trolls in life who do not give much of a shit about others and are quite happy to inflict as much misery on people as possible, if it gave them their kicks.

As I said earlier in this thread, in the past some personal information, which I have not owned up to, has been used against me. This was information that I had only told one member by PM a good few years ago and was being used against me by a totally different member. I have also seen other instances where personal information has been passed around casually by PM to be used against people, both on and off the board. It's just done in a way that doesn'tout and out break the board rules. So, to me, it seems a little righteous for people to be up in arms about this when, frankly, this sort of shit has been going on for years and people are well aware of that.

There is this notion that WF is some sort of great little family, with loads of thoroughly decent folk on it. Fact is that despite it's longevity, this is not what it is. The nasty truth of it is that there are some people here who exist to cause trouble and have no moral compass about what they do to fuck around with others, including taking it outside of the Red Room/board. There are people here who are more than happy to cross over the line between a few ribs and insults, to out and out malice. I'm not saying that applies to all, it doesn't. But the amount of people who don't just leave things as Red Room banter are greater than some WForgers think.

No it doesn't. It's long been the rule that anything posted in the Red Room (or even outside of the Blue Room) is fair game as far as personal information goes. You're deliberately misinterpreting the rules to fit with your desire to have this poster banned. The moment we start controlling what posters do outside of Wordforge is the moment this board is lost, and how dare you for trying to be a part of that. You should quite honestly be ashamed of yourself.

The rape analogy is completely false and it's honestly rather offensive that it keeps being brought up to make a point an issue in which the "victim" has already asked that it be dropped. I will once again point out that Wordforge's Red Room is more similar to people fighting in your apartment, shitting on the sofa, and peeing in the sink. I have always been a strong opponent of mixing the Red Room with anything employment related for that very reason. Members who browse the Red Room at work are complete fools, as are people who would deliberately invite the Red Room to spill over into their person or professional life. That does not excuse the behavior of the particular poster who posted at this other website, but there is no basis for taking action against that poster.

We should not police members' actions outside of Wordforge.

As long as you all keep trying to put blame on the victim it will keep being brought up.

Why not? This is Lanz's board. If he doesn't want complete fuckos running around he has every right to ban them. I know I don't want those kind of people here. Why do you?

1) Lanz has no right to police members' actions outside of Wordforge
2) Lanz certainly has the right to ban whoever he wishes, but that sets a bad precedent for the board
3) We've had complete fuckos running around Wordforge forever, where have you been?

If Lanz has the right to ban whoever he wants for whatever reason, why does he not have the right to ban them for shit done offboard?

What bad precident is set? That the board owner will not tolerate fucking with people's private and personal lives?!?? THAT is a bad precedent to set?!?!?

Maybe, but not many have gone to this level. The person that did something similar that could be proven (Ted) is permabanned.

I don't buy the notion that just because something is outside of the board it should be beyond warning. In my profession there is the concept of "conduct unbecoming". If you are, for instance, convicted of a serious criminal offence, made bankrupt or various other similar instances, then you can be struck off from pratice. These actions don't need to have occured as part of your daily work, but the notion is that they reflect poorly upon you as someone who holds themselves are a person of a certain standing (i.e. an officer of the court).

WF is a board that is ultimately at the discretion of the owner. If he feels that the board will be brought into disripute by the actions of a member, whther off or on board, then that's his right. WF is not a democracy. It's a privately run entity.

The issue I have, as I have hinted at throughout this thread, is consistency. I don't think it is correct to ban one person for something like this when in the past self posted personal information has been used and abused at will. I also don't think it's correct to get righteous over this when personal info is regularly abused via PM. Furthermore, if there were to be a rule then it would have to include some concept of what constitutes damage and malcious invasion into a person's private and social life. I'm not seeing any great damage in this instance.

Yes they have. They just do it via PM and post less obvious persoanl info in threads hoping that the "victim" will out themselves and throw a drama.

If you aren't aware of that then you've had you head up your arse for years.

Agreed.

Here's where I disagree. I'm on the record saying I think the Personal Info rule as stands is dumb. As the web merges more and more with 'Real Life' so does the line between the two blur. You CAN'T really keep the two separate these days.

Recognize that, but also make it clear that just b/c that info is out there it in no way makes it okay to abuse it. And no, putting a stingray in a sig isn't abusing it, I'm talking about shit like was attempted today. That is why if it can be determined who was behind this that person needs to be slammed and slammed hard. I agree with Async that a year is not outrageous for this kind of thing.

Maybe they have, they just haven't been caught.

But just b/c you don't catch every murdered doesn't mean you just let the ones you do catch walk.

Point of order - which probably has already been noted but just in case:

Soliciting votes is not "rigging" - I suggest that you can't possibly be naive enough to suppose that EVERY person entered in that competition, as well as EVERY other such competition on the net, freely solicits their friends to come and vote for their entry and help them win.

there's nothing devious, underhanded, or unfair about that since everyone has an equal opportunity.

Yes, in an ideal world, voters would only vote for the entry they actually thought was best....but that pretty much never happens so let's not get all noble about it.

As a middle ground solution, I suggest trying to confirm who the villain is, outing that person publicly on Wordforge, and the "family" here appropriately shunning and shaming the asshole in question (whomever it might be)

Anc spoke of making such a tool unwelcome - I suggest that if we are all of the same mind, we can make anyone unwelcome here - say for instance all of us put the person on ignore and stick to it.

Oh, and if it is Faceman, at a bare minimum we can dispense with that lame-ass "Faceman presents" bullshit name for the Gray Room.

That's sort of like saying you can avoid being mugged by simply never leaving the house.

"fishing for votes" is SOP in such a competiton.

Those who do not "fish for votes" do not win.

Ever.