The Wordforge I joined in 2004 is dead. This current cabal of admins has demonstrated a willingness to arbitrarily ban those they personally dislike, with no regard to how the board is diminished in the process. The explicitly stated goal of the current administration is to turn Wordforge into another version of TBBS. If I wanted to participate at TBBS, I'd go back to TBBS. So, yeah. It's possible to move on from this, but not the way you're thinking.
Holy crapdoodle, you're still here? What, no new place yet? The board is dying, the board is dead, you bastards killed the board, the board has AIDS, you made the board smell like poo, I'm outta here, lot's of people will leave and you'll be alone, this board is DYINNG I tell ya! Christ, could you be more of a whinging attention whore?
Not really, I don't. Instead of making a series of byzantine rules, we simply cut out the tumor. We did precisely the opposite of what TrekBBS did.
Although I agree to a certain extent, I'm also pretty much done with humoring the usual shit storms over every damn thing. Maybe we could have processed this better. Strike that, I'm sure we could have. But in the end, we all still firmly believe that gturner is a problem. His blatant disregard for the P in PM should tell people something. At any rate, as Anna has said, we are working on some things. I have no doubt some people are going to be pissed off, but that's just par for the course.
Honestly, it really does feel more like this than a surgical strike. Instead of new rules, it's a room. A room that most folks see themselves potentially getting moved to arbitrarily over violating unwritten rules. Hell, this is wordforge... ppl would rather have 70 pages of rules (there's at least that many threads spun off from this one incident) My own TBBS ban was for what I'd meant as a joke for Asyncritus' becoming mod of Miscellaneous... just some profanity in a congratulatory post. It was that instabanning, despite the obvious context and my non troublesome posting history that pissed me off. Coulda warned me, coulda deleted the post or asked me to, instead they deleted me for 2 weeks. This whole thing is over blown and has resulted in what? four bans now? at least two of whom were veterans? granted, they're both shitbags, but this time they had a cause. They broke rules, but in protest... that should've drawn warnings (maybe multiples even), but bans? WOulda saved a lot of BS to have just given him 2 weeks vacation and a couple HD threads that everyone would have lost interest in by now..
The most interesting thing about this is that gul actually thought this was the least bit interesting.
Ehh I know it was intended to be surgical, but it didn't turn it that way. I know there were good intentions behind it, but as you've already pointed out, the execution went terribly. I'll wait to see what results, rather than jumping immediately to conspiracy theories and echo chamber accusations like Volpone, Ron Paul, etc. (hell even if this somehow turns out worse, I don't think it's a conspiracy theory, it was just a series of honest mistakes in execution). I hope the lesson learned is to take more time thinking these things through. Of course hindsight is 20/20. But the fact that banning gturner only from the Red Room wasn't even considered (rather than the entire board minus the Violet Room), means that not enough discussion took place.
His fullboard ban was a result of failure to communicate. I assumed he'd only be kicked from RR only, and that was our fault.
Thats good to hear it was just a communications failure. I mean, it sucks because gturner got shut out of 90% of the board and because of the ensuing drama.
The problem is that, just like discouragement, you introduced an idea that was opposed en masse and you all hid, wheeling John out to face the music - and before you say again " we weren't around", when you were around your comments were brief and piecemeal at best and have been ever since. The explanations given by you, Gul and John have been arrogant, vague, inconsistent and dishonest. Then there's ShootER's "I never made the decision so I'll stay quiet and pass the buck". The message from the mods has been:- 1) "We're right and we don't need to give a shit what the members think as we can just deride them as trolls if we don't like them and say it's not a democracy"; 2) "We've got everything in hand and know what's best for the little people"; 3) "It's okay to pick and choose who to ban at random, and otherwise threaten those we don't like (which Gul openly did in the thread in which I exposed the fact that gtardo had no VR access, rather than b eing a man and facing the music); 4) That you don't communicate with each other and don't bother to implement your own decisions properly; 5) Suggestions from outside the mod circle are irrelevant; 6) Any complaint from someone you are politically opposed to is irrelevant; 7) Any suggestions and complaints from those you have predetermined as trolls are just ignored, even if valid; 8) That it doesn't matter if this is a repeat of what happened at TNZ all those years ago; 9) That, and this is the worst, your grand plans for the future are far more important that the opinions of 14 year veterans - the very people responsible for this board still being here, and that we are "assholes" worthy of mockery. The worst cause of this approach is the arrogance. Lots of people gave you so many suggestions and chances to minimize the fall out but you thought you knew better. Just because you don't like people like Faceman and I doesn't mean we are idiots. Just days before this clusterfuck I said to Gul that the fairest way to go about this would be to introduce a new rule and give gturner time to comply. It was arrogantly dismissed out of hand, making me feel like I had no value as a member in the process. Yet I knew it was a good idea - because I knew that I, and some of the more moderate critics of this, would not have had such a bad reaction to this if he'd have been given a chance. The drama would only have come from the likes of Volpone, etc - and even then their arguments that he had been banned indiscriminately and not pursuant to the rules would've been much weaker. But the arrogant method that it was dismissed out of hand just sent the message "we're not going to listen to the membership, even if you're right". Then, as soon as this clusterfuck started I said your handling of it would be a repeat of discouragement, and sure enough it was. John wheeled out to defend it and repeatedly say over and over why you're right while refusing to answer questions, Gul then arrogantly appearing to talk down to people and dismiss their concerns. Then, days and days after trying to get a blood out of a stone we finally got and admission from you lot that is was a bad idea. But we knew it was a bad idea to start because some of us aren't idiots. Same thing has happened here. Just two days after I said it mirrored discouragement, here you are admitting the implementation of your decision was bungled, and that the managing of the fallout was poorly done. So that's two key things I and others were proven right on in just a matter of days - and we knew it at the time. What you lot need to understand is that you are not "just another member". You can't operate like the Keystone Cops and make casual, poorly thought out decisions because every decision will be scrutinised. Worse, still, you cannot be arrogant and dismissive. That's why Gul is such a terrible mod. Far worse than his actual decisions is his attitude. It's rude, obnoxious, inflexible and carries a self imposed sense of superiority. In fact, it's ironic that this should come so soon after Brexit and Trump, because the message of those votes was that people didn't like arrogant, elitist politicians telling them that they knew what was best for them. It's one of the things that shows that Gul is not as smart as he thinks he is, because hot off the heels of Trump's election he implements a microcosm of the very elitist approach that hung around Hillary Clinton and killed off her campaign - yet he's too obtuse to understand why. Much like Hillary, he too is a polarising figure (and he can insult me and threaten again all he wants, buit one thing he can never deny is that he is far, far more polarising than the other mods, and it's all down to his attitude). What you have done, both with your arrogant and dismissive attitudes, and with the complete bungling of this decision, is create distrust and a lack of confidence in many members. What's more, by refusing to listen to others, you have created a lack of faith. Finally, by refusing to implement new rules and carrying out banning pursuant to the rules, you have created a climate of fear and distrust, where members feel they are in danger of being booted out at whim if they are disliked by one of you - made even worse when you're actively coming on the board and threatening to do so just that because you're getting criticism. I think you are going to have to do a lot to restore faith - and I don't think simply saying "things are being done" is going to cut the mustard. It's just a short term bandaid. Restoring the faith will be a long term excercise, one that you should reflect on and consider whether or not some of you should continue as mods if you can't change. You personally Anna have agreed with me so many times when I have said to Dayton that he lacks the ability to look back on himself and realise his mistakes. Well, you guys need to ask yourselves how many of your can truly look back and realise your mistakes? Because those that can't should no longer exercise control because they don't have the required personality. Tererun essay over.
I jumped to no conclusions. I could see exactly what was happening...and I find it laughable that you need to make a professional insult, when I think deep down you know I would have approached this mess in the way they did because I know the importance of fairness and rules.
Well, then I'm sorry the professional insult. That wasn't called for on my part. I think you did jump to several conclusions along with others, which got this toilet bowl spiraling downward. You were also extremely impatient and continue to demonstrate your impatience. Rash and fast actions (from all sides) got us to where we are now. I do think you're smart enough to analyze it in hindsight (which you did above). But I offer the same advice I offered the staff: take a moment to pause and think before going down a certain path. Have patience.
Yeah, but most of what I said above was just what I was saying throughout - because the decisions not to change the rules and go after gturner "just because" were clear even before they did it. In other words, the unfairness was there from the start - and it unfairness that is always the thing that motivates any complaint from me. In fact the unfairness was there from the very first time Gul declared gturner the worst of the worst who should be gone on open board and then merged all gtardo's thread. I will not miss gturner. I didn't need to be patient because the premise of the ban, a targeted rule-less banning, was where the unfairness lay. It is just important to me that all members are treated correctly for as long as they are here, whether I like them or not. For instance, if they banned Dinner for racism without introducing a "no racism" rule then I'd criticise that as well, no matter how vile I see him as a person. Had they acted fairly, I wouldn't have raised much objection, if any. Volpone and Poodle boy acted like complete twats these past few days, broke the rules and earned bans. Have you seen me criticse that? No, I supported it because we have rules, they broke them while knowing them and so a ban was fair. If they come back crying about it and saying it proves bad modding they'll have no support from me. That's why my attitude proves what I say, that for me it's never been about petty loyalties, cliques or whatever else. For me it has always been about looking at the mods, whoever they are, and seeing if they act fairly, competently and without bias. They say WF isn't a democracy - but it's also not a dictatorship or a ego vehicle (or at least it shouldn't be).
Here's another one: Stop being a fucking idiot whose trying to martyr himself like Volpone and Apostle but just can't fucking man-up enough to do it right.
Oh and you're fucking hours late with this bullshit crybaby "I'm next" shit. Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ at least make an effort to be timely with your posts.
I'm sorry, I have a life to attend to. I'm glad you're okay with gul arbitrary banning people though.
@Federal Farmer, take Zombie's advice. Remember the other day when I said you were like the school kid who nobody likes, who then picks and choose at random who he thinks the cool kids are and trioes to stick to them and emulate them, well that's you, especially when you think you're being a skilled troll. Stop being a fucking prick.
Please do not help Zombie. He has had plenty of practice dressing down mods in the last fifteen years and he doesn't need you trying to jump in with that. He's on your side, which I thought was clearly obvious to everyone.
If he's on my side then I shouldn't expect him to berate me when I call out gul's BS. I'm late to the party, so what, I don't get a say?
It's just... how to put this... like you're trying too hard. The upshot is that if you're trying to call mods on their bullshit, you shouldn't give them an excuse to ban you. It's making you come across as a "me, too!"
This. I fucked up the permissions list, which is a pain in the ass anyway, and it resulted in him not having access to any part of the board for a while. Once I found out what was going on, I fixed it, but you know how it is.
