Ask garamet

Discussion in 'The Workshop' started by garamet, Apr 16, 2004.

  1. Techman

    Techman Still smilin' Deceased Member

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    Awards she earned, IMO...just as your "Strangers from the Sky" should have.

    But that's just me. :D
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  2. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^Thanks. :D

    You've got me intrigued. I may have to read something of hers now...
  3. Techman

    Techman Still smilin' Deceased Member

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    Start with "Shards of Honor"

    You won't be able to put it down...least I couldn't.

    The Miles Vorkosigan series is excellent. :techman:
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  4. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Garamet, can you look back thru your published works and pick out specific lines that you're particularly proud of? In other words, are there sentences that you wrote and then said to yourself "Dang, nailed the hell out of that one!"?
  5. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^Wow, can't believe that's been sitting here for a week and I missed it.

    Great question! Gimme a while to dig up a few. :)
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  6. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^Okay, two instances that I can think of, one in which I worked really hard to craft a few good sentences, another where a random set of circumstances resulted in probably the clunkiest sentence I've ever written being, in its own way, immortalized.

    Example #1, from Preternatural Too: Gyre:

    The setting is a bomb shelter in Berlin, late April 1945. One of the characters is a time traveler who ends up saving a child from being buried alive, with the usual ramifications for time travelers who do impulsive things in eras where they don't belong:

    :shrug:
  7. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    This -

    - is bloody genius. :techman:
  8. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^ :blush:

    Okay, now the clunky one.

    It's 1978, I'm putting the finishing touches on my first novel, A Certain Slant of Light. Mainstream novel about a professor who suffers a stroke and the young single mother who becomes part of the movement to reinstate her when her college tries to oust her.

    Toward the end, the young woman is enrolled in law school, and she's painting her son's bedroom and thinking about the future. The line I wanted her to end her reverie with was "It is only possible to live happily ever after one day at a time."

    Except that at the time there was that Bonnie Franklin sitcom called "One Day at a Time," and I didn't want readers to automatically think of that when they read the line.

    So I turned it inside out and upside down and fretted over it more than I had the approximately 100,000 words around it, and finally came up with "It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day basis."

    Even as I wrote it, I thought Clunk! Gawd, that's badly worded. But it's one sentence in a whole novel, who's gonna notice?

    Turns out someone somewhere was compiling a collection of what they considered pithy one-liners to sprinkle through a special edition of the Yellow Pages which they called the Silver Pages - listings of special interest to seniors.

    They somehow picked that line out of my novel and ran with it. I think they may even have spelled my name correctly when they credited it.

    Needless to say, no one in charge of the Silver Pages contacted me, asked my permission, let me know they were lifting that sentence, much less offered me any kind of compensation.

    That line has since been "borrowed" by several other sources - calendars, quote books/sites, etc., etc. At least once a year I'll get a fan letter from someone wanting to know if I'm the person who wrote it.

    And every time I read it, I still hear it go Clunk!

    Whattaya gonna do?
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  9. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Tell 'em Storm wrote it? :soholy:
  10. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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  11. JUSTLEE

    JUSTLEE The Ancient Starfighter

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    So why write science-fiction and Star Trek? Do you find it harder to write for any other genres? What are the specific challenges for writing in the genres you chose?

    I have read Strangers From The Sky and did enjoy it as well as Probe.
  12. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Mentioning Probe here could be interpreted as trolling. :lol:

    Tread carefully. :nono:

    Then again, if you don't know the story, you don't know. Read back through the thread- it's probably in there somewhere.
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  13. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Actually I started my career as a mainstream writer, sort of in the Ann Tyler vein. Then along came the Recession of '82, and every major publisher regrouped, downsized, cut inventories and jettisoned some of its writers. My particular publisher got yanked entirely by its parent company, leaving a dozen writers stranded, and no one else was interested in taking us on.

    So my agent asked me what I could write in terms of genre fiction. I said "Well, I know Star Trek." He groaned. At the time, Pocket was only publishing six Trek novels a year. But I wrote one on spec anyway; it was turned down. Then I wrote another and it got picked up, as Dwellers in the Crucible...two years and three changes of editor later.

    Thanks for asking. :)
  14. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    And mention Probe no more!!

    [​IMG]
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  15. JUSTLEE

    JUSTLEE The Ancient Starfighter

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    What kind of a contract did you recieve for your first book? Have they changed over the years? Are the contracts from each single book or did you have to write a number of books per contract?
  16. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Well, bear in mind that I signed my first contract in 1978, and for a mainstream - i.e. not s/f or other genre - novel.

    Back in the day, publishers had "right of first refusal." Which meant if they bought your first book, they got dibs on seeing the outline and chapters for the next one.

    AFAIK, that's not done any more.

    Originally, it was meant to protect the writer, who at least had the security of having a "home," i.e. knowing the publisher would most likely be interested in more than one book.

    Where it backfired was with unscrupulous publishers who would sit on the outline for a second book for months or even years. In that time, the writer was constrained from showing the outline - or any other outline in the same field (because the original publisher could argue that it was a "second book") to anyone else. That could really fuck up a career.

    Multi-book contracts *used* to be common in s/f. Unless you're Terry Pratchett, they're not so common any more. Unfortunately the publishers I was with wouldn't sign three-book contracts, but insisted on making me do a dog and pony show for each of the sequels in my two trilogies.

    According to an agent friend I spoke to recently, science fiction is currently "listing like the Titanic" because of short-sighted decisions, busted contracts with writers who couldn't deliver, and stupid marketing tricks.

    Too bad, so sad...
  17. JUSTLEE

    JUSTLEE The Ancient Starfighter

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    Did you have to establish yourself as an author before you wrote your Trek novels, or were you able to write your Trek novels before you wrote your own?
  18. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Some of that's probably upthread somewhere, but I sold three "mainstream" novels between 1978-1981, then along came the Recession of '82. Many publishers jettisoned many, many writers. I had the "good fortune" to be with a publisher whose parent company just outright killed it.

    So nobody was buying what I was writing. Sat down with my agent and tried to think of what else I could write. At the time, Pocket was publishing six novels a year, but I knew the genre, so I gave it a shot.

    Took two years to get anyone at Pocket to even read my stuff, but eventually they bought something. Then I segued into non-Trek s/f from there.

    Usually it's the other way around. You establish yourself as a s/f writer first, then the Pocket editors will consider you. But because I had the three mainstream novels behind me, and a willingness to wait through two years, three editors, two "sorry, not for us" manuscripts, and various snafus while refusing to go away, they finally bit.

    Somewhere on the Simon & Schuster site is a list of rules for submitting Trek mss., if you're interested. ;)
  19. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    G, what would you say your average time for banging out a manuscript is?
  20. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    I'm extremely slow. Anywhere from 750-1,000 words is a big day. Then I usually go back the next day and pick at those words before hacking out the next batch. Then I'll get a few scenes or even an entire chapter done, and go back and reread to make sure I remember where I am and can keep the forward momentum.

    When the entire manuscript is completed, I'll try to let it "breathe" for at least a couple of weeks before going back in, rereading it in one fell swoop, and making final changes.

    Also, I don't always get to write every day. RL has an annoying tendency to get in the way. And sometimes the words just aren't there, and I can stare at the blank page all day and make myself crazy, or just go out and do yard work. After doing this for 30+ years I've learned to just do the yard work. At least I've accomplished something, and usually the words come back the next day.

    So, counting research, and the fact that I no longer write first drafts in longhand, start to finish for a novel is about a year.

    Which ties in nicely with my editors' deadlines.

    And that's only for my own stuff. When I'm ghosting, the author of record has usually done anywhere from 15-50% of the work already, so I can work faster.

    Love to be able to pound 'em out faster, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Writing's a lot like sculpture. Some of us can throw a lump of clay on the table and whack out a finished product in no time. Some of us have to keep chipping at that hunk of rock until we can see what's hidden inside it.

    Not a one of my novels hasn't surprised me in some way. It's almost as if the stuff's been lying in wait for me going "Duh! What took you so long?"

    ;)
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  21. JUSTLEE

    JUSTLEE The Ancient Starfighter

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    So what would be your terms for screenplay adaption and movie rights?
  22. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Garamet, do you happen to know who has the literary rights to Buck Rogers? Or how one might go about finding out such a thing?
  23. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Garamet, since writing Burning Dreams, do you feel differently about Pike? Is he more or less than what he was to you before you wrote it?
  24. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Usually the studio makes an offer through the author's agent, and then they haggle. I've had a novel optioned, but that's as far as it went. Studios frequently gobble up far more novel rights than they ever intend to use, just so no one else can touch that particular work while they make up their minds.

    In my case, the option ran out after 18 months and was not renewed. The money was nice, but it would have been a lot nicer if the project had gone further. :shrug:
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  25. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    No idea, but let me poke around and see what I can come up with. ;)
  26. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Great question. :D

    When Marco Palmieri approached me to do the book, I pretty much had the same attitude toward Pike that I think a lot of TOS fans have, which was: Interesting character, interesting performance, but nothing like the chemistry that Kirk had, and even if the studio had picked up the show with Pike as the captain, it probably would have fizzled after one season.

    But as I watched "The Cage" and "Menagerie" over and over and over again, I realized how much of this character's story was below the surface, and I started digging.

    There was also something heady about taking a character that GR had created more or less by the seat of his pants and probably never gave a second thought to once he had Kirk, and whom other writers had used effectively in several novels and comics, but always in the action-adventure mold, and being able to really get inside his head and ask "What makes this man what he is?"

    Marco and I knocked some ideas around. What was really interesting to me was what I saw as Pike's drive for perfection (still blaming himself for the events on Rigel VII, for example), as well as his distancing himself from his crew (unlike Kirk, who goes way beyond the bounds of any RL CO, which is part of his charm, as well as a weak point).

    I was looking for some sort of childhood trauma that would set Pike on this life path of feeling he was never quite good enough, no matter how hard he tried.

    Marco suggested something along the lines of
    , and together we spun out the events of Pike's childhood
    from there.

    Then, as you know, I borrowed generously from
    for his early career. :?:

    His relationship with Charlie, his relationship with Siddhe, and the sense that Vina haunted him down the years until he could be reunited with her sort of came out of the ether, as the best ideas always do.

    Inspiration aside, though, I managed to bollix up a timeline at one point and almost lost the scene
    , but some quick editorial magic on Keith DeCandido's part saved that. :whew:

    So I came away with a deep respect for the character, the performance, and the place Pike has in the history of Trek that I might never have had otherwise.

    Which makes the piece I'm currently working on a bit of a challenge, but since it hasn't been announced yet, I'll have to leave y'all hanging there. :diablo:
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  27. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Good answer, bad teaser!
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  28. Dead Peon

    Dead Peon Curses!

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    Garamet, I'm sure this is a silly question, and will be written awkward, so let me get it out of the way: how do you start your novels? I haven't had a problem like this before, but now that I REALLY want to write a story which I have a pretty good outline for and a ton of other details locked in my head, I can't get that first sentence written.

    I know my own problem is that I'm over-thinking it too much and not slipping into my "groove" as I call it, but I can't seem to just get that first sentence out and let the floodgates open.

    Any advice other than an Albertian "shut up and start and it'll eventually happen."? :D
  29. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    ^I can't remember whether it was Red Smith or Mickey Spillane who said something along the line of "Writing is easy. Just open a vein and start bleeding." :D

    Better yet, I think, is the advice from Russell Baker, long-time columnist for the NYTimes, who said the blank page was the most daunting thing in the universe. He said: Conquer that first page, and you win. Throw something on it, anything - your name, "Mary had a little lamb", "Call me Ishmael," your best friend's phone number.

    Then you win. You've beaten the blank page, and you can put anything else you want on it.

    For me, the first 100 pages are the hardest. That's why I just finished a 40-page story in three months. Kept overwriting and cutting back, overwriting and cutting back. Would have been easier to write a 400-page ms., but the folks who pay me wanted a story for an anthology, and I was happy to be included.

    I guess it comes down to *don't be afraid of the words*. You're in charge (although sometimes at two in the morning when it won't let you sleep, it doesn't feel that way).

    Especially when you're working for yourself, and not under a deadline and committed to an outline that someone else has approved (and paid you for), you can say anything you want on that page. No one's looking over your shoulder. Honest.

    Just write. Remember fingerpaints when you were a kid? Give yourself that freedom. Don't be afraid to color outside the lines, even splatter on the walls, because you're writing for yourself first and foremost. You can always mop up the spills later.

    And do not, NOT try to edit your first effort right after you finish it, because you'll pick it to death. Let that first clump of paragraphs or pages breathe at least overnight before you reread them. By then you'll know what sucks and what stays. And in pruning out the Sucks and tidying up the Stays, you'll find the momentum for the next paragraph and the next and the next.

    Go for it! :techman:
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  30. Jeff Cooper Disciple

    Jeff Cooper Disciple You've gotta be shittin' me.

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    If I may without stealing your thunder . . .

    I'm a screenwriter, not a novelist, so the way I write is somewhat different. I normally take some 3x5 notecards and write a few key scenes, normally plot points on them along with whatever other information I need for a particular scene (like if I need the characters to fight a monster, I might describe the monster a little if it makes a idfference). I write an opening scene, the finishing scene, and then I put the cards in order. I'll have maybe 5-10 scenes already done that way, and then I just need to fill in the gaps. I have to make Scene A flow into Scene B. I fill in a few more notecards, one per scene, to fill in the story. Three minutes per scene card and between 30 and 40 cards to get me on the way. The nice thing about using the cards is I can rearrange them as needed or even discard them completely.

    Next, I take the cards and flesh them out in a treatment or outline. Each card will get a paragraph or two and depending on how detailed I want my outline or treatment to be, I might throw in some important dialog. Some producers like short treatments (4-5 pages) while others want incredibly detailed 60 pages outlines.

    From there, it's just putting words on the page, which for me is the easy, yet the time consuming part. Now, I have to think how I thing the movie would show up on a screne, so I have to think about specific camera angles, I have to think about budgets, I have to think about locations and so on, so in that way it is a bit constricting. If I push myself I can get a first draft done in a week.

    I cheat a little bit because I use FinalDraft 7.0 to format as I go and I use a book called The Hollywood Standard that has all the rules for formatting that the software will get wrong (MSWord does this too, espeically with passive voice. I write, not the software).

    Now, I'm of the opinion that screenwriting is just a different form of writing and takes just as much skill and dedication as either poetry or prose.
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