Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)

Cats had a budget of about $95-million (typically double that if you factor in marketing costs) and only took in $71-million in worldwide box office. It was universally ridiculed by critics and audiences alike. By every objective measure, Cats is a nuclear holocaust.

By contrast, Birds of Prey made more money in its opening weekend than Cats did in its entire run.

And of course when Thanos kicked Hulk's ass, but his punch got stopped by Captain America, you were right on that shit, right?
*Checks*
Nope.
All right then.

What does that have to do with what I said?

Oh, it's only the same fucking thing, that's all.
Except the characters having different crotch-plumbing throws you off, apparently.

It’s not the same thing at all. Men are genetically stronger than women. The fact that you can’t understand that is not surprising though.

I just love being lectured on biology by someone who's never touched a book on genetics.


Stop. Listening. To Youtube. Neckbeards!

Sorta. The companies doing the marketing (or the companies that make money off running the ads) are largely owned by the studios that made the movie. So while a studio might have spent $100 million to promote a movie, the bulk of that money went to another division of the same studio. Studios are also very good at hiding profits. Return of the Jedi officially lost money at the box office, despite having raked in piles of cash well-over what it cost to produce it. At least according to the accountants. In reality, it probably turned a huge profit.

When a female character beats up five guys, we scoff that it's unrealistic.

When a male character does it, we accept it...even though it's almost identically unrealistic. We're used to it.

The level of disbelief I can suspend about such things is in the answer to this question: do I believe this character is an extraordinary fighter?

Do I believe Bruce Lee has the skill to beat up five attackers? Yep. Seems credible.

Do I believe Bond can beat up five attackers? Sure. Former SAS, MI6 agent with a license to kill. Very probable badass.

John Wick? Yep, professional (and apparently unparalleled) assassin.

Chuck Norris. Uh-huh.

Dwayne Johnson? You betcha.

And...

Lorraine (Charlize Theron's character from Atomic Blonde)? Yes! Totally credible badass.

The Bride (Uma Thurman) from Kill Bill? Yes!

But...

I do have a bit of a problem with a sixtysomething police detective doing it as happens in Birds of Prey.

If everybody's that much of a badass then no one is.

Here’s an example to help. Jadzia is familiar with Klingon combat, she practiced often, so it made sense that she’d be able to at least spar with Worf or other Klingons. She’s still not as athletically built as Worf. Hell, Sisko is probably bigger than her. There’s a reason we don’t let transgender females compete in MMA, they’re still physically a man. It would be extremely unfair. Michael Burnham is maybe 130 lbs, yet can take down several Klingons who are much bigger than her. Even Batman couldn’t take down Bane. How do you not see the difference?

Certain amount of suspension of disbelief is allowed, but certain movies and tv shows seem to stretch it way too far. Apparently @Diacanu can't grasp this concept and just assumes anyone who does is an incel, misogynistic bigot.

The movie was just ok.

Some nice fight scenes but, much like Suicide Squad, the only really interesting character is Harley Quinn.

The rest of the characters are just there as filler.

And I still think Kaley Cuoco does it better. Of course that is animated versus Margot Robbie being live action.

Probably not something I’d watch again. Possibly better than Suicide Squad but that’s a low bar.

Too many wink and nod moments. Harley never quite broke the 4th wall but they were clearly trying to mimic the Deadpool movies.

So far the only DCEU movie I’ve really enjoyed enough to watch multiple times is Wonder Woman. Looking forward to the next one.

I quite enjoyed Man of Steel and felt it was highly underrated. I think part of the problem is that there is still an entire generation that can only see Christopher Reeve in the role and hear John Williams' iconic score.

Wonder Woman was also pretty good. But I agree... DC seems to have by and large shit the bed when it comes to their tent-pole film franchises (Nolan's Dark Knight films being an exception). It's a shame, because I actually prefer the DC characters to the Marvel ones, but Marvel/Disney seem to have found cinematic superhero magic.

Aquaman was really nice to look at. Nice world building, costumes, and special effects.

I guess I could watch that again. Not much of a plot but it had some epic water battles.

Apparently the film has been renamed "Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...ailing-birds-prey-suddenly-changes-its-title/

Pretty much any girl could beat up @Diacanu so the concept is difficult for him, yes

Really?
You're gonna regress all the way back to Jeriko levels of lame immature troll crap?
I mean, thanks for the nostalgia trip, but I didn't ask for it.
Gotta say, I don't miss the 00's.
Thanks for the reminder.

1. Rosie Perez is 55, the character she plays could be older or younger.

2. In the comics, Renee Montoya becomes the Question, a masked hero that works with and fights alongside the Justice League.

In conclusion, Renee Montoya beating the shit out of a bunch of hired goons isn't weird, and the people complaining are just a bunch of incels.

No, it's a valid criticism. It wouldn't be weird if the screenplay justified it. The Huntress is justifiably a badass in the film; Montoya isn't.

Also, Black Canary's cry comes out of nowhere (aside from an oblique hint in her dialog with Montoya). If she can do that, she should lead with it in a fight. The "unleash your inner power" moment isn't earned.

No, you’re just an incel. You can’t possibly have a legitimate criticism. Not in 14th Douche/Dicky/WAB’s world.

Paladin isn't.
You?
Weelll....

Hard to exceed the CATS level of bombing.

Point of order: Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and Dwayne Johnson aren't movie characters and what they can or cannot do will depend entirely upon whom they are portraying.

Nor can I see any of them actually beating up five competent attackers at once IRL, that's movie stuff regardless of who you are.

In fairness part of the problem here is that the screenplay does not include information which is well known to people familiar with the source material but let's not overstate the importance of that. We are never told how Harley Quinn becomes so skilled in SS, nor Hawkeye in the MCU, or a great many other characters across movies, yet we don't mark it out unless it stands out for some reason. If it stands out as remarkable to a viewer it says one of two things:

1) something is amiss with the film and therefore the viewer struggles to suspend disbelief or,

2) something in the viewer's preconceptions are being reflected in the observation

Which this case represents I couldn't say.

Did the BVS screenplay justify Wonder Woman as a badass? Or were we just supposed to know that from the comics?

Of course, I meant the characters they often play, not the actors.

Yes, that's my point.

Nope, although WW did fill in the gaps.

Unexplained skillsets are commonplace in movies and rightly so. After all there wouldn't be much entertainment in a film which felt the need to give backstory every time someone drives a car or cooks dinner.

... CATS definitely set up us the bomb.

Now all our base are belong to them.

Movies have to stand on their own. They can't require the audience to do homework beforehand.

That said, the superhero genre by definition involves costumed characters with extraordinary abilities.

My gripe (with BoP and other films) is that ordinary people manifest superhero level fighting skills without much to back it up.

In the Batman stories, it's well-established that Batman is a badass. He's trained his whole life, driven by anger, and has committed himself to not just fighting crime but destroying it. He's like the best MMA fighter ever. You can reasonably expect him to beat up common thugs without working up much of a sweat.

But it cheapens his whole premise if Alfred or Gordon do the same thing. If either of these guys is a Batman level badass, what's special about Batman?

My problem with Rosie Perez's Montoya isn't that she's a woman or that she's older, but that she's relatively ordinary and nothing on the screen really justifies her level of badassery.

Seen it!

https://dickynoo.blogspot.com/2020/02/birds-of-preyharley-quinn-2020.html

Um, I've seen the fucking movie, and she's not exactly a fucking ninja.
She's got a fucking gun.
She shoots, she pistol whips, she gets some lucky kicks, punches, and judo flips in.
Not exactly Bruce Lee stuff.

They've all got nasty weapons.

I'm in horrible shape, but if I shoot the Rock in the jugular with a crossbow, I win.

This version where Margot Robbie is picking up and throwing Jon Cena around with her pinky is in someone's warped axe-grinding imagination.
Not at all the movie I saw.