Looking up their record Ethiopian Airlines seems to be quite well regarded for their safety practices. What makes you so wary of them?
Pssst, their pilots aren't Superior White Men. *Cue the "Why do libs always play the race card?" rant. Speaking of, can we buy @Marso a ticket on a 737 Max 8? Once we're assured his life insurance is up to date, of course. Maybe @Tuttle can ride with him.
I'm puzzled by that comment, too, especially since it's quite probable that a certain Wordforge pilot is drunk or severely hungover half the time he's in the cockpit.
I'm wary of all third world airlines to a large degree. Third world countries, Europe, and the far east don't have much in the way of general aviation (as in small aircraft flying), and what they do have is prohibitively expensive. So commercial pilots in those countries are often trained 'ab initio' by the airline, in some form of street to cockpit training program. They learn the bare basics of stick and rudder flying, but mostly how to manage automation and operate the aircraft using the autopilot. These programs breed an over-reliance, even an unhealthy dependence, on automation. The Air China crash a couple years ago in San Francisco was a classic example of this problem. On the day it happened, there was a 'fully qualified' flight crew in the cockpit and a company check airman riding in the jumpseat. That day, the glideslope function of the SFO ILS to their runway was non-functional, which meant the crew had to either program the FMS for a GPS glideslope or 'eyeball' a visual approach. (Weather was fine, and IIRC they were, in fact, cleared for a visual approach.) The problem was, without that GS indicator, these guys simply didn't have the skills to judge things by eye, got 'out of the box' on energy management (low AND slow, a cardinal sin), and didn't realize it until it was too late. End result: they pranged in short of the runway and oh the humanity. American, Australian, and a large number of western European pilots spend years flying small airplanes, often as flight instructors building time, or in the military prior to entering the cockpit of a passenger plane. You do spin training, most learn a bit of aerobatic flying at some time or another, and you really learn the ins and outs of flying, develop a proper sense of kinesthesia (seat of the pants instincts), and you spend enough time in the pattern to learn energy management, sight picture, and a whole bunch of intangible skills you can't teach to a 6-month wonder in a flight simulator. Speaking for myself, I had almost a decade in the cockpit, more than 2500 hours, and experience flying in Europe, South and Central America, and North America before I ever flew my first civilian passenger as a COPILOT. Prior to that time I had hundreds of hours of aerobatic and formation flying, as well as being a military flight instructor who taught primary- meaning the guys showing up who had never touched an airplane before. I couldn't even count how many approaches (of all kinds) and touch-and-goes I've done in the landing pattern. In America, Europe, and Oz, pilots like me are a dime a dozen. When the automation takes a dump at a critical time, we're perfectly okay turning it off and just flying the airplane. This is the skill a lot of third world / east asian pilots LACK- when the automation dies (or even worse, malfunctions), they're immediately in the hurt locker, often at a time when seconds count- just like recently in Ethiopia. Not all ab initio programs are bad. The gold standard is Lufthansa. Excellent safety record, and in their program you cut the mustard or wash out. Every nation, every airline has their pilots on either end of the bell curve: guys who should never go within a hundred yards of an airplane ever again, to guys who could outfly fucking astronauts. Most of the rest of us sit there somewhere in the middle of that bell curve. I'm sure there are some sierra hotel pilots in Ethiopia, just like there are a couple guys at my own company I wouldn't put my family in an airplane with. However, when you look at it odds-wise, I don't trust third world airlines. In my opinion, the middle of their bell curve is skewed toward the low end, through no real fault of their own. Sorry if this was a TLDR reply, but you asked. It's a little more involved than what the board asswipes like Tererun figure it is: Oh, he must be a racist!
I thought an advantage many western or at least U.S. airline pilots had was that at least a couple of decades ago, a huge portion of them were trained to fly by the U.S. military originally.
Also Bailey, you might be interested to know that one of my cousins is an Aussie lad who just got his licenses a couple years ago. He's currently 'building time' the way I talked about with a small outfit up in Broome, in the Pilbara. Several years from now he may be flying you around on QANTAS. You can rest assured that if/when that happens, he knows how to actually fly the airplane.
Wasn't that Korean Air that ass-dragged into SFO? Anyway, this answer is very much in line with information that came out after that incident. I wouldn't be surprised if some CAP cadets have as much or more stick time than some foreign pilots. I might object to the broad brush, which might be unfair to Ethiopian, but, I think the point is well made.
Uh, maybe, I might be getting my mishaps mixed up. There's been more than one instance of this sort of thing under similar conditions. There was also the Air Canada one recently where they almost landed on the taxiway at SFO instead of the runway- a taxiway stacked with airplanes waiting to takeoff. Real fun day for everyone, and nobody is immune from a mishap. You gotta bring the A game every day.
Also, everything I said in that long post about third world pilots goes double for their maintenance practices, as well as their own local government oversight. I'm sure Ethiopia has their own equivalent of the FAA. I'm equally sure it's only fractionally as effective, has the barest fraction of the resources for oversight and enforcement, is more susceptible to corruption, and almost certainly even more interested in preserving and supporting the operation of their sole, national-flag airline than the Feds in this country are.
Again, I might object to the broad brush, especially since Ethiopian has (up to now) had a good track record, but it's fair to wonder just how good their overall standards are.
U.S. commercial airlines may (I repeat may) have decent safety standards, but they are among the worst airlines in the world in every other aspect. I will very deliberately not fly on a commercial U.S. airline unless I have absolutely no other alternative. Americans who haven't flown internationally have no idea just how bad they're getting fucked over.
They do. We routinely go millions of takeoffs/landings without incident or injury. Really? I've flown international quite a lot, and all of those flights (American and otherwise) have been decent to very good. Of course, a higher level experience is expected on international flights. I've flown Lufthansa and SAS inside Europe, Kingfisher in India, several whatever-the-hell airlines inside China, etc., and all were competent. I didn't really notice a better experience. What am I missing out on?
I assumed he was referring to anecdotal metrics (not mocking that, I had same impression): -delays or tardy re times going/coming -viral stories of outrageous incident -TSA process and practices -developed into no frills (surcharges for meals and bags) Possibly US has greater variety of choices, and lower rates. Again, based on my gut I would guess this is true. I assumed he was ignoring empirical data (but it wouldn't surprise me if US is inferior on the qualitative metrics, while being superior on the quant. data). I would guess US comes out equal or better with standardized data (adjusted for distance or by cost). I think US also still has some subsidized routes, but assume the impact is immaterial. Not sure about state of subsidy in global airline industry (recall when Switzerland's ego bruised when gov run Swissair went bankrupt long ago).
@Paladin: Not a single American commercial airline makes it in the top ten list. Staggering for a supposed world superpower. https://www.worldairlineawards.com/2018-world-airline-awards-results-announced/ I fly business class most of the time, have NEXUS/Global Entry/TSA Pre-Clear, and I fly on average 3-4 times a month, so my experience will be very different than the average traveler. Even then, I find the customer service and overall experience of U.S. commercial flying to be total shite. Not only that, your major airports (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc.) are fucking embarrassments. @Tuttle: Here's some rankings based on empirical data: https://www.airhelp.com/en/airhelp-score/airline-ranking/ The first U.S. airline doesn't even crack the top 20.
Someone (don't recall who) aptly pointed out that, since 9/11, the U.S. commercial airline industry almost completely shifted from a customer service-focused industry to a security-focused industry. Just arguing with a stewardess can force a plane to land and have you arrested. Not saying that security isn't obviously important, but that's how utterly insane it's all become.
The American flying experience comes up short both on the ground with our dreary, utilitarian airports and in the air with our cattle car seating. LAX, Atlanta, Miami are hellholes and even our "good" airports can't hold a candle to airports all over the world. Seoul, Tokyo, Singapore all have airports that are absolutely jaw-dropping for beauty and amenities. Of course, I'm speaking as a passenger. The experience for pilots could be quite different.
Standards in the US have dropped like a 737 max 8 over the years. I used to like flying. It was a nice way to travel. The airports were nice and had things to do. Air travel is crazy now. I would not even consider a plane today. Not that I fit into the seats anyway since I am over 6 feet tall. Seriously, I cannot remove my legs for the flight, and the last time I I flew me knees were swollen from all the times they were slammed into the chair in front of me. Maybe I will try flying if I ever go to a foreign country, but not here in America. I will go Amtrak or drive. Now that I know safety devices that keep the auto pilot from flying you into the ground after take off are not necessary I am not bothering. I really don't care how good the pilot is when the plane is suicidal.
I absolutely love flying and there are times where I really miss flying as much as I used to fly. But, I've always absolutely loathed airports.
If you find LAX a hellhole (yeah, the Continental terminal could have used an overhaul 20 years ago), do not ever, EVER fly in or out of JFK or LaGuardia. JFK is constantly "under renovation," and LaGuardia's apt to drop your plane in Long Island Sound because the runways are too short and the NIMBYs won't let them expand - not even out over the Sound. If you have to travel to NY, it sounds counterintuitive, but Newark airport is closer to Manhattan than either of the "NY" airports and a lot more user-friendly. My international experience is limited to Virgin. No complaints there. What's really cool is that you can order food/drinks from your seat and they're delivered concierge-style. No *&^%$#@ drinks cart clogging the aisle for half the flight.
I hate flying simply because while flying itself is relaxing and I could (in theory) fall asleep there's one problem - if I can't "stretch out" I can't sleep. If I can lay down & stretch out I can sleep on floors, concrete, whatever. One of the best flights I ever had was in Iraq flying back to Germany or somewhere on a cargo jet. There was a small group of us and the Air Force said "we have to ask you this: do you mind flying with corpses?" Apparently that creeps some people out. We could have the whole open cargo area to ourselves, but there might be bodies loaded onto the jet in the cargo area if they arrived in time. Otherwise, we wait for another jet. Hell no we don't mind! Getting the fuck out of Dodge for a while is well worth it. Anyway, the crew members gave us blankets so we could stretch out on the floor and sleep and there was no turbulence or anything and I was "out like a light" until the crew woke me up just before we landed.
I've been through JFK a couple of times. Ye Gods what a mess! I was in a terminal and when I went to the men's room there was a young Hasidic Jewish man praying just outside the door. I remember thinking, "Is it really that bad in there?"
We're due to go visit mom in SC. We traditionally go Mother's Day weekend. When my wife said it was time to book the flights a couple of weeks ago, I remembered how fucking awful last year's flight was*, and I just... couldn't. We're putting off til Mom's birthday in July this year. Hopefully four months will get me used to the idea. *Our seats were changed at the last moment to let a family of four sit together behind us. One of the four was an infant who spent the two hour flight on his father's lap, kicking my seat and slamming the window shade open and closed. Another of the four was a small girlchild who kept poking my wife to annoy her on purpose. We'd been up since 4AM and were hoping to nap on the flight. Fuck no. The plane was a united ERJ145 with about 30" seat spacing.
That shit should not be tolerated. At all. Crying babies are unfortunately one thing -- and I have a lot of sympathy for the poor parent -- but infant/toddlers should be controlled. Your first course of action is to politely ask the family to control their children. Your second course of action is to politely advise the stewardess of the situation. Your third course of action is to open the emergency door, decompress the cabin, and toss the little motherfuckers and their idiot parents out of the plane (hoping you don't go with them).
Two years ago trying to visit my wife's sister in NC, my wife got pulled aside for the full random search. While they were doing that, United cancelled our flight, and couldn't get us two seats together on another one. So we went home. The next year we managed to get to NC, and my wife got frisked again on our way home. She's pretty much had it. If our families hadn't moved 700 miles away I'd drive. But I hate driving as much as flying.
I looked into it. 16 hours on a train with two transfers. My wife rejected it. Flying sucks, but at least it's only 2 hours of suck. And can't you even make a simple suggestion without snark?
I assumed you still had me on Ignore. Anyway, what sucks about flying (aside from airports) is being crammed into an assigned seat the entire time. A train lets you move around, change your seat, have something to eat/drink when you want it, not when the staff starts doling things out to you. Some of them have observation cars, TV rooms, and sit-down restaurants. They all have WiFi. Think of it as more like a cruise, only without the risk of seasickness. Although you'd probably hate a cruise, too.
