Caitlyn Jenner: No to trans girls in girls' sports

Maybe Tim Scott will campaign for her

Exactly. And conservatives looooved them. Some of them made really good money traveling around the country giving lectures arguing for their own continued disenfranchisement.

You mean Uncle Tim, right?

A sports league organized like that would give every sports-obsessed uber-fan even more on their plate to discuss/analyze/ruminate over.
I'm not a sports fan (except for fighting of all types) but are height/weight considerations ever a factor in victory or defeat? Maybe power/Olympic style lifting has weight categories, I don't know.

Don't even get me started on the Uncle Tim thing.

Only those on the right are racists, didn’t you know that?

That's what I keep hearing from the goal-post movers and tap-dancers, but I'm still not convinced of their claims - but that's just me.

Toss up a quote then.

Don't even joke like that. We lucked out with the Governator not being too terrible, but Jenner is a sellout louse for more than this one issue.

Unless the search function is failing, the only people who have used that phrase on Wordforge are ... the two of you.

Basically. Jenner is not stupid enough to believe she would ever win California. It's not 2003 any more and she's not the biggest action star in the world. Plus, more of us see through the Republican ploy that this is to punish Newsom so I don't see him getting Gray Davis'd out of office to begin with.

Yeah I tend to agree. Out of interest after I posted that to 14thDoc, I checked on the athletics website. Things like sprinting are easier for comparables because it’s just humans going as fast as they can over a set distance. For example, 200m sprint. FloJo, fastest woman over 200m since the 80s with her 21.34 WR hasn’t had it threatened by a woman for decades. Closest are all in 21.60s. Yet 5000+ men have beaten that time. If you’re wanting mixed sports based on build I think you’re going to see natal women obliterated from records, and that’s before you even start thinking about the trans issue.

I hope I’m wrong, because that doesn’t seem very progressive to me. I think I read somewhere that if children have reassignment it should even these issues out in the future because it prevents full development, but I think the time between now and then may be quite messy.

What is the impact of transitioning on athletic performance, though?

I think I’ve seen @Nova post in a thread saying that it reduces muscle etc so that is slightly different. But my response was to 14thDoc’s interest in seeing how sports based on build would work. So, even ignoring the trans issue, it would seem in terms of athletics etc it’s bad news for women.

The effects of HRT on MtF show significant reductions in performance with regard to muscle strength, mass, speed, endurance, and agility (HRT also shifts body fat, which cause changes in performance). The problem is that most of these studies are done on regular folks who are transitioning, rather than professional athletes. Even so, they found that after 3 years of HRT, transgender women attain physicality that is within the 90th percentile of cisgender women. It's still an advantage, but not the huge breakaway it was before. Honestly, more studies need to be done with regard to professional athletes who are transitioning.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/02/28/bjsports-2020-103106

What about FtM... do they gain performance as a result of transitioning?

They gain muscle mass, along with body fat shifts that improve muscular development. Unfortunately, even fewer studies have been done for FtM transitions, let alone athletes making the transition.

I really hope she wins because of this.

You're really weirdly emotionally invested in this, aren't you?

Emotionally invested? No. I do like how you always think you know other posters emotional states though. Keep up the guess work.

It was all over Twitter the other day.

maybe not that exact phrase. Maybe not having the exact terminology for the search function is why not one single person on wordforge who calls me a racist has ever provided an example of me stating that one race is superior over another race.

Maybe you can use the search function to find examples of leftforge members claiming that the left is on "the right side of history" and that the right (especially Republicans and/or Trump voters) is absolutely morally bankrupt/racist/bigoted/itellectually impaired/etc etc. If memory serves Anc makes this claim on a regular basis.

The thing is with professional level top-of-the-food-chain athletes is even fractions of a percentage in any given area (especially in more than one area) makes a huge difference.
I like to use the milk analogy: There is one percent difference between two percent and one percent milk - tell me that doesn't make a big different in taste. Comparing one percent to skim milk really hammers home the point.

Not to go down this path again but in the most basic terms, IF a person has experienced male puberty (if they haven't, all other considerations fall away because there's no advantage at all) there's a POSSIBILITY (because of course, there's a wider range of physical outcomes within the sex binaries than there is between the median example of each) that the individual will have SOME specific physical traits which HRT cannot reverse or mitigate. For example, skeletal structure. If you are competing in a sport where reach, for example, is a factor (tennis, vollyball, etc) then a person with a greater-than-female-typical-reach is always going to have that. However it is critical to remember that NOT ALL those who experience male puberty will have a greater than female-average reach, and by definition, half of cis-females do. And it's going to be almost entirely random whether or not the person with the gifted reach is gifted in other athletic skills enough for it to be a difference maker or, indeed, if they care to participate in other than purely recreational athletics at all.

Man other things, the great majority, ARE "normalized" by HRT for a year or more, particularly when you are speaking of female normal RANGE and not female AVERAGE. The comp to FloJo, for example, is inapt because those 5,000 male runners were NOT subject to a years long HRT regime and THEN beat her speed.

The set of traits which do not reverse (as related to athletic performance) are almost entirely those which are related to bone structure - you don't directly lose height, reach, shoulder width, etc via HRT. And in some cases the above average bone length is a DISadvantage (one competitive biker pointed out that ale-puberty bone structure would be heavier, those a disadvantage where being lighter weight matters, for one example)

On the contrary, 1% milk has only 50% of the fat as 2% milk.

More to the point, since there exists NO "top of the food chain" trans athletes, much of the speculation popular among skeptics lacks even anecdotal evidence.

It is good to see a trans token in the post trump stupid vacuum. Why should crackhead pillow salesman and Diamond and silk get all the action from @oldfella1962 ? OF is right, he is not just a racist, he is an all around prejudiced dolt.

are you weighing in with your racist expertise or just going to run your mouth, racist?

Regardless of the exact percentage my point still stands - a tiny percentage can be a huge game changer.

Calling me racist is nopt going to get me to stop calling out your racism. But keep on going with it. The proof you are a racisty slug is in your posting. Now you are proving you have a problem with trans people too with your use of a trans token to try and justify your fear and anger. No one from the trans community thinks Jenner is a spokesman or representation. The only ones who do are transphobic morons like yourself. It is just proof positive of your prejudice that you would chase this down like a dog faked out by his owner not tossing the ball.

You are such a liar. You did not even care about this a few years ago when trans kids were playing sports and there was nothing going on. There is still nothing going on, but you are losing your shit over it.

Just making up your lies like always. In your case it is racist going to be bigots.