Clinton vows to fight beyond all reason and sanity!

CD makes it sound as if it's down to a three-way race, not as if it's down to one Democrat vs. one Republican.

Who the fuck said Hillary was going to campaign for McCain?

Please tell me that you aren't as dense as garamet!

Wait... don't. I don't like being lied to.

Let me ask you this, who is McCain's opponent? Who is running for President on the Democratic ticket?

Until the answer to that question contains a single name instead of two, we have a three way presidential race. The two that are technically on the "same side" are doing nothing but wasting their campaign money and sapping each other's momentum leading up to that big day in November. The long the Dems go without a clear candidate, the more time McCain has to draw in supporters who are sick of the bickering going on in the opposing camp.

Actually she doesn't need too. She is helping to provide McCain with all the ammunition he will need against Obama.

At this point in time, how isn't it?

We'll know that by the end of August, won't we?

Who is it now?

And if the election were being held this Tuesday, that would be significant.

But unlike Ron Paul supporters, I doubt the majority of Democrats currently supporting either candidate are going to sulk and pout and sit on their hands in November if "their" candidate doesn't win the nomination.

Oh, it's going to be one of *those* arguments. I should have known...

While not a majority, definitely significant...



A question, are Ron Paul supporters who refuse to vote for McCain "sulking" and if they are, is there sulking wrong somehow? Should they suck it up and vote for a candidate they don't like? If so, please elaborate as to what these folk owe the electoral process.

The ones whose candidate doesn't get nominated will do any of various things. Some (perhaps most) will grudgingly tow the party line. Some will stay home. Some will vote McCain. Some will write-in their candidate.

Clinton suffers more than Obama if she weasels the nomination, because the groups most likely to stay home rather than tow the line are black voters and young voters. Many of them are the "new" voters.

Women as a group, aren't new voters. Neither are seniors.

If by "one of *those* arguments", you mean the kind where you are on the losing side because you didn't understand what you were arguing against, then yes. This is.

Those numbers are partly emotional and won;t keep, but undoubtedly some will follow through. Particularly Democrats who don't think much of the Clintons, a large demographic to be sure.

Even if it's only turns out to be about 5%, that could be more than enough to inaugurate McCain.

I gotta wonder though, how true will this be come Nov.

Now this is just personal observation, but to me it seems that Hillary attracts many of the the traditional Dem voters, people that would vote for Jeb Bush if he had a (D) behind his name, whereas Obama draws alot of first time voters, moderates and independents.

And is there a graph for how many would just sit it out instead of voting for McCain?

As obsessive as some Hillary supporters are, I somehow can't see all that many of them voting for McCain out of spite. Ditto Obama supporters, despite the current Gallup poll.

I thought the general consensus was that polls were supposed to be meaningless? Or is that only when they don't say what we want them to say?

Everyone is entitled to vote as he wants, or to not vote at all.

That's a question each will have to answer for himself.

Nothing.

But the right should remember the lesson the left got in 2000. Because a few insisted Gore wasn't sufficiently liberal (a la Ralph Nader), they got Bush. If righties make that same mistake and withhold support for McCain, they're going to get Clinton or Obama. The perfect is often the enemy of the good (or, perhaps, the less bad). That simple.

And what of it? If I hate all three of them, what does it profit me to pick any one over any of the others?

It was 16% for both sides.

Which amounts to 35% and 44% combined lost votes to either McCain or noone (depending on who gets nominated), which are colossal numbers.

But you're right, those numbers will fall...somewhat.

And unless the right changes its attitude between now and November, that's exactly what's going to happen.

Polls are snapshots in time, and are sometimes outdated by the time they've published.

But I've never claimed that they're meaningless.

I'd just like some explanation to the derision shown to voters who claim that they won't be voting for McCain.

Is the animus shown towards these people based on the fact that the ones deriding them know that they themselves will be voting for their party nominee, no matter who is running in November. Is the derision a manifestation of their own guilt in being nothing but mindless straight party line drones?

I hear you. But not liking any of the above does not mean you cannot draw a distinction between any of the above.

I submit to you that you will be far unhappier after 4-8 years of Clinton/Obama, then you will with McCain. Both Clinton and Obama have BIG NEW ideas for how government can take more control of your life, programs you'll be stuck with all your taxpaying days.

Yes, I don't like McCain either. Welcome to the club.

Don't ask me. I'm unaffiliated.

Danke, but do you really only think they will fall 'somewhat'? Seems to me alot of Clinton supporters have got their back to the wall and are quite frankly pissed off that their chosen one isn't being chosen by the public. They are argry and throwing a temper tantrum.

I take what they say about as seriously as a kid telling his parents that they'll hate them forever when they get grounded.

Exactly.

If McCain keeps the war going, that alone might make his total four year expenditures exceed either Democrat in total.

Wars ain't cheap, especially this one.

So can I take that as a "No, I will not be voting for Hillary"?

If so, welcome sister!

I consider the choice between McCain, Obama, or Clinton to be analogous to the choice between being forced to eat a thousand turds, a thousand and ten, or a thousand and twenty. Worse, I don't know which choice will net me which number.

I won't deride anyone for not supporting McCain; I will continue to suggest that the lesser evil is still the LESSER evil.

You have to take the world as it is, now how it should be. The reality is that the next President will be named either Obama, Clinton, or McCain. If your ideal candidate is not in that list, then you have some soul-searching to do...

post script. Not to mention as I said before from what I've read most Clinton supporters and straight down the line voters. Do you think they'll really vote for McCain come Nov, once his stance on the issues really comes out? So far all they have heard is the far right saying how Liberal he is, not realizing the far right are a bunch of fucking morons with an ax to grind b/c of a few high profile acts.

Once his voting records become public, I don't think many Dems will be pulling the lever for him.

I am, and my inaction come November is an acceptance of that.

Oh, and my soul is fine, thanks.