CRT tangent from political meme thread and Cis tangent from Musk thread

People who think making that CLAIM renders them above reproach or criticism, yes.

Right, the South believed black people were 0/5 of a person but still wanted them to count as 5/5 to hold more electoral power. It wasn't a compromise, it was appeasing immoral hypocrites.

If slavery wasn't viewed as immoral at the time, why would the North have even taken issue with this in the first place?

I never said that slavery wasn’t viewed as immoral at the time and it was a compromise because without it the Union likely wouldn’t have held together.

Dude, you're society.
You're only telling on yourself.

The left is never satisfied because the right picks up one thing, then sits down to have a beer.

Cleaning up our shit doesn't mean changing one thing. You have to clean the ENTIRE thing. then you can sit down and have a fucking beer.

As I stated previously, Northern colonies did not want slavery in America. However, they desperately needed the backing of the southern colonies if they were going to win a Revolutionary War. So, they compromised. Much to the shame of most Americans today.

Was it the right thing to do?

If only we could look at alternate realities and see.

Which is why have episodes of Star Trek like “In the Pale Moonlight” to help us understand these type of decisions and realize that even the “good guys” have to do shitty things for the greater good. We could sit here and place blame and name calling or we can accept the imperfect nature of the past and move on.

The GOP are trying to undo the progress we've already fucking had for decades. If you don't keep pushing, nothing fucking changes.

You're missing the point. of both.

Both the founding fathers and Star Trek.

It's not about being "best". "Best" implies a ceiling.

It's about being better. Always striving to be better.

You literally said that, see below:

or, as certain among us show, will result in a gleeful march backwards.

What saints. I'm sure that was heartwarming to the human beings they owned, raped, tortured, sent bounty hunters to recapture and who died in their service.

No-one is saying this, get off your cross.

I'm not in the Sainthood business. I am in the historical accuracy business. Yes, all that is true. Yes, they also opened the door for greater democracy for the first time in millennia, and that absolutely increased human rights. Both things are true - which I've said since the beginning.

I'm done with the stupidity that only one or the other matters. So I'm calling out the morons on that score.

Hi, Moron!

The economics argument for slavery collapses when you look at the story of Robert Carter.
He freed his slaves, and got into the pottery business with freed slaves as paid labor, and it made more money than plantation-ing.
It took a little extra brain-sweat to set up and get rolling, but slavers just wanted to be lazy.

Buy this book.

Hey moron, perhaps you want to read the last few pages again and notice that this tangent started based on politicians trying to focus on those individuals positives and dismiss the bad, aka saying that one mattered more than the other.

Which doesn't make the reflexive snarling rejection that the declaration of Independence did promote all men being created equal as its foundational principles any less ridiculous

But if you say something positive about the Founders, you guys go into spasms. It's pavlovian. See: every post of yours since I pointed out to Dicky that indeed most of the important Founders did see slavery as a moral evil and stopped its spread into new territories.

There was a wave of manumissions in the colonies after the Revolution. In Virginia for example there were 20,000 by 1800, and by 1810 slave prices had dropped by more than half. This was explicitly due to those founding principles.

The invention of the Cotton Gin and its widespread use in the South reversed that pattern. And that changed the pattern from 'an evil which should be put on the path to extinction' to 'a positive moral good for society' esepcially one 'condoned by God.' That's what ended up causing the war.

The economics of slavery worked just fine. That was the problem. By 1860 the value of the slaves was greater than that of all the factories and railroads in the North. It combined capital and labor into one self-replicating process. Buy a female and male slave, get more slaves for free.

Carter is well known, at least in my neck of the woods. And he certainly did not enrich himself by his actions - he inherited more land and slaves than any other person in Virginia. He acted nobly, and had such vast wealth that he was able to repurpose some of it, and his family did not collapse. They also didn't leave the slave business - his daughter's family continued on with the old plantation buying new slaves as necessary. His son in law notably beat the man that Carter granted the legal authority to carry out the manumission. His two surviving male children he set up in new businesses in the North.

And there were costs associated with his moral actions. At least one source beleives that he was run out of Virginia, and there is a surviving threatening letter from his neighbors indicating that what he did was akin to burning their houses down. Moreover, the church he founded did burn down, and it is believed to have been arson. Carter fled to Baltimore to live out the rest of his days.

And, once again, one of the major reasons Carter became the single largest emancipator prior to the American Civil War was due to Revolutionary War principles. Part of it was religious, but part of it was also his adherence to the concept that all men were created equal.

If you partake of the carbon economy you are creating misery and suffering for all your descendants past this point. We know this for a fact. Yet if you are on the internet posting here, you almost certainly are partaking of that economy. If you are employed in that economy you almost certainly are increasing the impact.

If you are doing so but are supporting the technologies necessary to mitigate the problems and transfer over to a renewable based energy sources and economy then congratulations, you are committing evil acts but are trying to set up for a better future.

The pertinence of that to a discussion about slavery and how future generations see you should be obvious.

Hopefully they are wiser and more forgiving than we.

When you

Holy shit this is a bad take in a thread where you've had some real doozys.

Yes, we know that.

The slave states thought the people they enslaved were ZERO fifths of a person, but they still wanted to use their victims to increase their representation in Washington.

I don't know why @Federal Farmer does not want that being taught to children. Maybe he is a shitty white supremacist who wants to MAGA and likes anti-CRT whitewashing.

It was a necessary evil.

Here’s how Encyclopedia Britanica describes the situation they were facing.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/three-fifths-compromise
I think that’s a reasonable description of the situation.

Necessary evil means committing one type of evil to fight off an even worse evil.

They fought off a lesser evil (taxation without representation) only to continue propagating an even bigger evil (literal slavery).

That is the opposite of a neccessary evil.

Said the guy who wouldn't be saying that if the founding fathers hadn't did what they so that you could say that.

Right, because you're not allowed to say things like that in the United Kingdom.

Britforge is gonna get arrested any minute now.