CRT tangent from political meme thread and Cis tangent from Musk thread

I guess you missed the point.

 

It doesn't surprise me at all you lack the foresight to understand that 100 years from now the odds are that the ecological damage will be so severe that the people of the time will excoriate us for our inability to deal with a known evil we all are partaking in.

 

Hat's off for being able to decipher that sentence. I tried and it made my brain hurt.

 

What...? Ignoring the typos, do you think that if I were still a part of Britain, I wouldn't be permitted to criticize the government? Please walk me through your thought process.

Edit: also, you completely changed the subject. How is the topic of taxation more evil than actual fucking slavery?

 

Imagine if the revolutionary war hadn’t happened.

 

Slavery in North America would have ended sooner. Like a lot sooner.

 

@Federal Farmer, again, why is taxation a greater evil than actual fucking slavery?

 

Or maybe part of @Federal Farmer's trust fund was a beneficiary of slavery, considering where he is from. How many slaves did his family own so that he could one day drive drunk without consequences?

 

I never said it was.

 

You just can’t help yourself from going personal can you?

 

You did:

 

When you defend slavery, it calls into question your personal motivations.

 

That’s far from assured. Nothing about the Revolution was necessary for the invention of the cotton gin. Imagine instead of a few Caribbean islands with a few thousand slaves each, Britain owns 5 colonies that make up an agricultural slave empire exporting millions of tons of cotton every year. The French Monarchy is replaced not by a Republic or the Directorate, but by another Monarchy. No Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, no revocation of abolition by Napoleon in 1802, no war across Europe fueled in part by the Haitian slave state that needs disrupting.

And you think they’ll just give that up anyway in 1808-1848 as it actually happened? No, I think they’re far more likely to go to war with France in the new world to take Louisiana to expand the slave empire as far west as the cotton grows.

 

The writing was on the wall for a lot of the European monarchies/empires/what-have-you. Do any of them still maintain the same territorial hold?

 

I’m not defending slavery, I’m defending the founding fathers decision to sacrifice their moral objection to slavery in favor of the greater good. As a Star Trek fan, I kind of thought you’d understand that.

 

A necessary evil is not the same as lessor of the two evils.

 

Again, their decision to sacrifice their moral objections to slavery was in opposition to taxation. Why is taxation more evil than slavery?

 

By definition it is. Literally the first Google hit:

"A necessary evil is an evil that someone believes must be done or accepted because it is necessary to achieve a better outcome—especially because possible alternative courses of action or inaction are expected to be worse. It is the "lesser evil" in the lesser of two evils principle, which maintains that given two bad choices, the one that is least bad is the better choice."

 

Exactly. You’d think as a Star Trek fan, he’d be able to understand timeline changes.

 

It wasn’t just opposition to taxation. This is a very simplistic argument you’re making.

 

You'd think as a Star Trek fan, you would be able to understand why slavery is a worse outcome than taxation.

 

Yeah and it wasn't just slavery that the founding fathers propagated. I'm going east on you by not even bringing genocide into the debate.

In addition to taxation, what evils by the British government outweighed slavery and genocide?

 

Watch “In the Pale Moonlight “ and get back to me when you understand what a necessary evil is vs the lesser of two evils.

 

Seeing as it's 10:30 for me

It's literally about taking the lesser of two evils: fraudulently inducing someone to become an ally in war that inadvertently results in the death of one politician (albeit somewhat complicitly) versus the deaths of countless billions.

Again, what was it the British were doing that was so bad that justified slavery and genocide? Is slavery and genocide the death of one senator, and taxation the deaths of billions? "Necessary evil" isn't carte blanche to commit any evil, just a lesser amount of evil to overcome a greater evil.

Seeing as it's 10:40 for me (and 1:40 for you) and I need to wake up at a decent hour, we can continue this conversation tomorrow. I'll give you the night to think about a response, rather than continuing to deflect the same question.

 

Dude, more was at stake than just taxation. You’re just trolling at this point.

 

The British empire were committing genocide and engaging in slavery too, JFC.

 

What else was at stake?

 

Oh I think the French Revolution still happens (though perhaps without the expense of helping the American Revolution, Louis can spare some coin to pay for more bread, but let's say he can't), I just don't think it proceeds the same way. I think it ends up more like the English Civil War. The third estate morphs into a house of commons-type of thing, but some other illiberal monarchial dynasty retains sovereignty. And just as the English Civil War did little to slow the formation of the British Empire, I don't think a French Revolution absent the American one impacts French imperial ambitions. It's possible that they actually play the roll of Britain in our history, in abolishing the trans-Atlantic slave trade (to hurt their rival power), although I don't think they ever had the naval power to enforce it the way the British or Americans did, and they certainly can't force British America to end such a profitable slave empire any more than they or Britain could force the USA to do so.

I don't know when North American and Caribbean slavery ends in that timeline, but just saying 1808(-1848, really) because that's when it happened in this one is ignoring a whole lot of why that happened when it did in this one.

 

In hindsight? The whole entire free world. At the time, representative democracy in the colonies which was rejected by the King, which comes with a lot of rights we take for granted, self governance, property rights and I don’t just mean slaves, etc.

 

This is a relevant podcast IMO:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dan-carlins-hardcore-history/id173001861?i=1000553133741