Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by We Are Borg, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    I don't think we ever got to hear the full text of Veritas, so it may say why the simulation existed.

    I do like @Bailey 's idea too, that the suicide was a failsafe in anyone finding it, but since it's code there are a whole raft of other options that would stop the reader parsing the information.

    Maybe next week we'll discover that the programmer was forced to create the simulations against their will, and so flung in a few bugs under the radar to undermine the invaders?

    But yeah, so very, very much made little sense which was a huge pity as many scenes were some of the most enjoyable in Dr Who.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    21,548
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +36,511
    Steven Moffat is incredibly inconsistent, but every now and then he can hit the ball out of the park.

    This was a very good episode, if you can look past some of its flaws.

    Also, unlike many other sci-fi series, one of the truly great things about Doctor Who (no matter who's running the show) is that it can create heart-pumping dramatic moments that don't involve violence or space battles or the like. Absolutely loved the scene where the Doctor emails himself.

    "ADDITIONAL MESSAGE:
    P.S. Dear Doctor,
    Save Them.
    The Doctor x."

    I can't ever think of a moment in a movie or television show where a freakin' e-mail got my blood pumping.

    Also, as I mentioned earlier, the Pope scene. :lol:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,957
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,682
    Also, the Doctor just basically told Bill to go out and get laid because shit's about to go down.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    "Honestly, shut up and get to the whale."

    :rotfl:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    That was a lot better.
  6. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Well... this to me is the kind of episode that only will have been really good if the next one does it justice.

    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    25,788
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +15,703
    Apart from the very bad science and the bad military knowledge, it was at least a B+.

    I maintain my opinion: Best Capaldi season so far.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Aurora

    Aurora VincerĂ²!

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    27,169
    Location:
    Storage B
    Ratings:
    +9,325
    I'm liking this season. It's not such a convoluted mess. I, as an adult, can actually follow what's going on :lol:

    And did I mention that I'll really miss Capaldi's outfits?!
  9. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,122
    Ratings:
    +37,373
    the red shirt one this week was awesome. I don't care for the slacker-hoodie look they go with sometimes.
  10. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Agreed, though I liked the last one quite well too. It's only his first year that was crap.
  11. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    The earlier attempts gave the clue, it must come from love. Strategy and fear failed, but Bill was willing to sacrifice Earth out of a form of love, and did so willingly.

    And hoping the Doctor would find a way to get Earth back was more faith than strategy.
  12. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    Quite enjoyed that, and the emotional resolution worked better than the magic lovey-dovey shit in Victory of the Daleks a few years back.

    Missy having a crack at being good on the other hand... Not sure about that.
  13. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    It was ok, but a lot of things weren't thought out properly. Worst of which: what was the monks' goal?
  14. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    Taking over the planet.

    They were just conquerors who'd figured out a way to take over without having to use an army. No grand plan, no moustache twiddling, just... Invaders. I found the simplicity of intent refreshing.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Usually conquerers have something to gain from conquest, though: land, riches, free labour, power at home, or whatever. The monks were apparently very few in numbers, and had a nice ship taking good care of all of them.

    Easily fixed with a line or two of dialogue -- only no-one cared enough.
  16. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    25,788
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +15,703
    I think people in general understand the broad benefits of owning a planet that one had not previously owned, so I am not sure that it's actually necessary to spell out specifically why any given alien race wants to invade any given planet.

    The benefits of doing so are fairly obvious.
  17. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    I am having a hard time naming an obvious reason that applies to twelve individuals that start off having more power than the whole planet by several orders of magnitude, including the power to create a perfect virtual reality of said planet.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    Power and because they can? Two very primal reasons we see at play across the planet on a daily basis.

    And really, do we always need a why? It's a human need to seek meaning in events, but sometimes they're just events, and in life we're not always going to get the satisfaction of answers and I quite like fiction to reflect that on occasion.
  19. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    :shrug: I guess. It's very hard to describe what makes a story complete or incomplete, and ultimately subjective. My experience this time around was that I was left without many of the answers the plot seemed to be building towards (and no suggestion that the answers were withheld for later, or indefinitely but deliberately).
  20. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    Not unlike the Greek gods, maybe? Boredom.

    Anyway, I need to go back and watch all three "monk" episodes back to back to look for nuance.

    Do like Missy's evolution (though I don't entirely trust it). And Capaldi - OMG, Capaldi! If I didn't already adore you, that look on your face as you delivered those broadcasts would have sealed it. :wub:
  21. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    25,788
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +15,703
    Land, resources, water, space, a a tactical foothold. These are the same reasons anyone has ever invaded anyone else ever.
  22. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,019
    Ratings:
    +47,873
    I liked that. Sometimes you don't get all the answers. Sometimes you're just lucky to survive.

    It's also worth remembering that the monks don't even really look like monks, that's just a form they assumed to better communicate with the people they're invading. They could have been lonely clouds of gas that just wanted to be loved, or tiny lizards that need to lay their eggs inside people. Or maybe they were hiding from someone else, hence the changing their appearance and working so hard to convince the populace they'd been there all along.

    I do feel like the repeated use of "ten years in prison" as a punishment for dissenting humans is probably a clue, though. The monks already had a way to brainwash people more effectively by bringing them closer to the main transmitter, so there's no need to imprison resistors unless you want them for something else. :chris:
  23. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,019
    Ratings:
    +47,873
    I enjoy a Classic Who reference as much as the next guy, but the "this story is actually a prequel to a classic story" twist isn't something they should go to very often.
  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,398
    Ratings:
    +82,225
    Given it's a time travel show, I'm actually amazed it doesn't happen more.
  25. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    How the hell did the Monks storyline earn three episodes when this, a much superior concept, got one?

    It was a really nice hat-tip to the pulp sci-fi stories of yesteryear, and even The First Men on the Moon. But you've got the British Empire effectively invading another planet, I mean come on, you've got levels upon levels of storytelling options there!

    Fucks sake, they took a t-bone steak and made it into a Big Mac. Still fills a gap, and enjoyable enough, but you don't use the good stuff if you're going to drown it in plastic cheese, burger sauce and imprison it in a sesame seed bun, you use the crappy filler stuff for that.

    Moffatt-the-writer is still great, Moffat-the-script-editor needs waterboarding with piss.
  26. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    25,788
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +15,703
    I liked this one a lot!

    Except the stupid Ice Warrior gun that twisted people into pretzels. Can't this show tell a story anymore without descending into pointless idiocy?

    LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Alpha Centauri. As soon as I heard the voice, I knew exactly who it was.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    19,119
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +8,244
    Didn't mind the Ice Warror gun, we've seen similar weaponry before - The Master had a similar device once - I was just frustrated at the shallowness of it all.

    They managed to make a space-zombie episode a critique of capitalism, yet here we have one of the most powerful Earthly empires ever effectively invading Mars and... What? Nothing about imperialism at all? Are we reserving social commentary for emojibots these days?

    We again had some nice lines for Capaldi (the writing has really upped that a lot of notches), his comments on the Ice Warriors positive and negative aspects could've, again, tied in nicely with the Brits - the Empire having done both good and ill, with only history as the true judge of the consequences of that.

    It was a brilliantly fun and enjoyable caper, and we have had too little of that over the last few years, but so much potential wasted!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,957
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,682
    Yeah, this should have been a two-parter: the Monks storyline really only needed to be a two-parter (skipping the simulation setup) so could have made room for this. I saw a comment on DenofGeek that suggested this could almost be a stage play, and I agree - lots of dialogue and not much need for special effects beyond the makeup.

    I thought the scrunch-gun effect was a bit silly, but then you've gotta consider how much you can do on a show that still caters to a kid audience... really showing the effects of the sonic blasters would be quite gruesome (bones and skin vibrated into jelly, like Daisy/Quake's powers on Agents of SHIELD).
  29. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    "The Eaters of Light," anybody? :unsure:
  30. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,398
    Ratings:
    +82,225
    I was half asleep through it, I kept opening and closing my eyes, and three minutes would jump ahead with every blink...and I still got the jist of it.
    Filler episode.
    :shrug: