Entitled Douchebag SF cyclist HITS AND KILLS A MAN, gets probation.

Or running over them with an SUV.

They do have the same responsibilities. The fact that a cop is not there to stop and ticket doesn't mean they don't.

How many times have you seen someone in a car do something illegal and you wished a cop was there to pull them over and ticket them?

It's the same thing.

I agree.

Critical Mass is full of assholes who should be run over repeatedly. They do more public relations damage to the image of bicyclists then any other cyclists.

Critical Mass in a lot of places has gone from trying to get the message out about bicycling to just a bunch of assholes getting together to fuck with people.

Though I've got to say the Critical Mass in Miami must be exceptionally well behaved since I never hear anything about them in the news.

i'm surprised to hear that most places ban bikes on sidewalks. obviously Omaha isn't a big city, but it is a city. it seems like you'd be way safer on a sidewalk than on the road here...maybe because our sidewalks aren't really congested in the city. in a suburb, i'd say riding on the street would be safer because there's lots of people walking their dogs and pushing their strollers, but in the city the sidewalks are generally empty. the roads are all at least 40 - 45 mph in midtown...you'd piss off everyone if you took up one of the two lanes going that direction.

FYI, that is not a city. I mean it might be within some arbitrary city limits but the land use pattern you describe (no walkers, everyone blowing through at 40-45mph) is most definitely suburban.

You'd think so, but the numbers seem to show that 1/3 bike meets car incidents are a bike coming off of a sidewalk into a crossing zone. There's also the issue of you're a threat to pedestrians.

Sidewalks here are hard enough to get through people on foot, let alone without plowing through on a bike.

Pissed off and inconvenienced is irrelevant. Bikes not only belong on the road, they have as much legal right to be there as cars.

Thus the dangers of the belief system whose principal tenet is "Omaha = the Universe."

I love the assumption we are speeding or going normal speed in the fog, pulled straight out your asses.

weird. I think of the suburbs as places with mostly residential and maybe a few gas stations....usually 25mph. i'm far from an expert, but I would be scared to ride a bike in the street in midtown here. people would seriously want to fucking kill you.

it's not irrelevant to me, cause I don't want to piss everyone off.

How much of a tax do bicyclists pay to maintain the roads?

Usually just as much as an automobile driver as most streets are paid for out the general fund (property and sales tax) with highways being partially paid for through a gas tax (not many bicycles on highways).

Then you've got the fact that a 250lb bike+person does SIGNIFICANTLY less damage to the road way than a 4,000lb automobile and you've got a good case for PAYING people to ride bikes.

Suburbs are many things. You can have suburban office parks, industrial parks, and yes residential subdivisions. Generally speaking they are designed around the automobile. Wide, fast arterials made to move cars quickly. Large storefronts and signs that can grab a persons attention at 40mph, buildings sat back behind massive parking lots.

An 'urban' or city area will be more person oriented. Storefronts that abut the sidewalk, lots of narrow shops with large windows displaying wares, short blocks, narrower streets. And you don't have to be Manhattan to be urban. I snapped the below photo a few minutes ago when we went out to run some errands. Buildings are only a couple stories tall (some only one) but the whole layout is designed about people THERE not about moving cars THROUGH. Now as you can see there is still a 4 lane road here, and lots of parking, it's not anti-car or anything. It allows multiple modes of usage, but it is primarily about serving those who are already here as opposed to those just trying to rush through. This is also another rough way to think about 'Walkable Urbanism' v 'Drivable Suburbanism'; urban areas are places you go TO, suburban areas are places you move THROUGH.

in Toronto, same as any other rate payer.
Municipal road maintenance is paid for by cities here.

How do you literally get on top of someone if you're not going normal speed?

Are the bicycle riders walking in the fog?

Stop your whining. You know there is fog and you know there are bicyclists.

There is nothing you can do to change either. So just leave a little earlier then normal.

Since the majority of riders have cars that would be the same as you.

Oh wait......

Even if they didn't have cars they still would pay.

You do realize that the government pulls funds for roads from all sources in addition to gas taxes and other "auto" taxes.

So again that would be the same as you.

"Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways.[3] In other words, highway user taxes and fees made up just 32 percent of state and local expenses on roads. The rest was financed out of general revenues, including federal aid."

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

Want the roads to yourselves? Then lobby the government to make sure car drivers cover the entire cost of roads.

If conditions were really as you described, then driving faster than the bikes would indeed be speeding. The posted limits are the max limit. They don't mean go that speed in any and all conditions.

My biggest problem in Memphis is when people ride on the road the opposite way traffic is heading.

I wish bad things on those people. Their kind. Can't really drive cars though, either. At least when they die, it is only them and not as many as they'd take with them where they driving an auto.

Just the specific people you have in mind?

Right.

They are riding 5-10 MPH and you think we are speeding doing 25-30?

These are not yuppie city bicyclists who more than likely dress properly, know and use the proper signals and use safety features.

These are ignorant fucks dressed to blend in the fog, probably have never seen hand signals let alone use them, creep along all over the road, don't even wear helmets and generally don't give a fuck. Often fat housewives and elderly health nuts. The few bike racers out there we don't have a problem with because they ride defensively and safely.

So only young fit people should be able to use the public roadway, no old and fat people allowed?

And look Tamar, you are the one that stated you thought you were driving too fast for the conditions. Your mph is irrelevant. All that matters is how far you can see, how quickly you can react and how quickly can your automobile stop. If you feel that you are driving to fast and pose a danger to other legal road users then you need to leave earlier and drive a safe speed for the road/condition/users.

I don't see how this is complicated.

If you can't see a road hazard until you are mere feet away, then 25-30 is without question too fast. See your own words from earlier in the thread:

If that is the visibility, anything more than 10 miles an hour would be considered speeding by a police officer, and rightly so. It is your responsibility to leave adequate time for the trip, which includes understanding the road conditions and planning accordingly.

Anyone that is riding 5mph on a bicycle deserves to be run over. Just like anyone who is driving 48mph on a freeway.

Oh my god, fuck off with that stupidity.

I never said we were going too fast. We were not going too fast. We have bicycle riders who are fucking unsafe about their riding.

Go ahead and make every excuse in the book for these fools...but the fact remains they are fools.

Anc's point is that both parties share responsibility. Speaking for myself, leaving a half-hour earlier would be the headache-free solution. But I agree with Tamar that it's beyond stupid to cycle in those conditions without any protective gear or bright clothing to stick out.

But at the end of the day, we can only control what we do and not others.

Everytime you don't reach out and nail a cyclist with a 5 gallon gas can, God kills a kitten.

Uncle Albert disagrees: it's possible to be an asshole without breaking the law.

We know. And do you want to know how we know?

Even with bright clothing if you're in thick pea fog soup you're not going to stick out.

Tamar just wants to drive at unsafe speeds in bad weather conditions.



(Take a pill chill Tamar..... )

Even if I wanted to, I couldn't.

I don't drive at all.

So it's all Zel's fault! Aha!