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The ghey fear in this thread is interesting. And amusing, in a pathetically sad kind of way.

How 'bout you word that so someone with can understand what you're aksing and I'll consider answering it.

iPhone.

Did you seriously walk out on your kid and husband because your feelings changed?

How often do you have to be told that when you make assumptions you make an ass of u and ... your umptions.

Kiss my ass.

I'll pass.

You said that you walked out and left the kid to be nice upthread.

Your reading comprehension sucks. You should sue Tennessee and Minnesota's public school systems.

You know how boxers have their real name, with their nickname in the middle? I think "The Crying Game" would be an awesomely bad middle name: "In the pink trunks, Hector 'The Crying Game' MENDEZZZZ!!!"

That doesn't even make sense!

No, no, no.

Was your husband cheating on you? That's the only time it is ok to end a marriage. "Till death do us part" and "in sickness and in health" is the pledge everyone takes.

Children don't just "get stronger" from divorces. Studies have shown quite the opposite. Their perceptions of relationships, their dedication to tasks, and their self-worth ALL struggle. Just because people survive this all the time doesn't make it less damaging.

Asyncritus stated that we should be the perfect marriage partner instead of worrying about the other person. He's dead on. Running away from our obligations weakens us.

Yea. Whatever. I don't subscribe to your narrow view of the world and I'm not going to live my life constrained by them.

Stop trying to make this thread about me.

Stop giving advice on things you know nothing about.

Now this is as fucking stupid as anything I have ever seen (and that includes posts from RickyRetardo and Liet)

Do you mean to tell us that in your mind an abusive spouse (and there are many kinds of abuse) is not grounds for divorce. If the guy rapes his wife or either of them beat the other or other forms of abuse they should stay together in your world???

That calls for a separation without divorce. Someone doing that is sick, and that falls under the marriage vow. I don't want to live in the world you guys do - a world in which you can't know with certainty that at least one person has your back, no matter what.

But then again, I approach marriage much more cautiously to begin with than you guys do.

Wow you are ignorant. So if a woman marries a nice guy who loses his job, becomes a junkie and starts beating her, she should separate never divorce and never be able to marry again.

Wow. Just. Fucking. Wow.

I don't know why you all still bother treating Apustule like an actual person. He's one of those cowardly, ignorant, misogynistic fuckbags who can't feel manly without dominating a woman like a piece of property. I can see him bleating about vows and obedience when his woman realizes what an utter piece of shit he is and leaves his ass.

Oh of course. That wasn't my point. I know of at least two cases where a married woman in the church was screwing a married man in the same church.

I was just replying in the context of his saying what a "real man" does in terms of responsibility.

If I wanted to troll Shepherd, I wouldn't need to create a dual.

But it's nice to know I haven't been forgotten in my absence.

The sad thing here isn't Chest Rockwell and his amateur & unrefined sledgehammer approach to trolling. No, it's watching Shep repeat the same mistake he always makes - feeding the troll. Post after post of long-winded and indignant verbiage. He just can't resist. Shep has always been an easy target, a moth to the flame (so to speak).

Missed that one the first time around, but the implication here is contemptible. A single woman, who has consensual sex with some guy, has committed no wrongdoing. That man breaking his vows and destroying his family is entirely his choice and his responsibility.

I covered a lot of this in the Blue Room thread and in more detail than i'll do here but in summation...

First: Preacher, yes, never pastor.

A bit of a timeline:

*I was "saved" fairly young but didn't spend much time in church and knew very little until my early 20's

*I knew i was a girl (so to speak) from the time I was 8, if not before

*when I was a young adult - about 17 to 22 or so - I was getting enough religion to know the whole "God hates perverts like you, repent and get right" line of BS (no one else knew about me so they could speak freely and not think they were talking TO me). During that period I went back and forth between running off to New Orleans and embracing my "perversion" (I didn't know any better at the time than to think that's what it was) or killing myself - I wavered in indecision over that for most of that time.

*in 1986 I was invited to a "crusade" where a preacher named Freddie Gage just happened to spend one whole sermon talking about "besetting sin" and how God would heal you of it if you lived for him. So I "re-dedicated my life" (A baptist phrase) and got serious about church and God. Sincerely, not as a quid-pro-quo but because I REALLY believed that being this way was wrong, not approved of God, and that he would in fact make it better.

*In 1988 I "answered the call" to the ministry (in retrospect, probably just me realizing there was "something more" that wasn't right and assuming that God wanted me to do more) and in 1989 i got married. Still very convinced God was going to "heal" me and it would turn out fine. she didn't have a clue.

*for the next 17 years begged God to "fix me" - I prayed and cried and studied and taught and preached (on the rare occasions someone took pity and gave me the chance) and clung fiercely to the party line that such things were a choice and it was a major sin if you practiced them. "Logic" informing me that God would never ask someone to abstain from something that they were born to do, therefore no one could be born that way.

*After going through all that time of begging God to make me right, begging him to give me opportunities to prove my dedication, accepting on faith what the church said about people like me - I'd gone so far as go to a baptist college and get a degree hoping that would open doors to preach (it didn't) I felt like if what I'd been told was true, things would be different. I'd done my part, and was i supposed to believe in a God who disapproved of my condition but would do nothing to answer my prayers for relief?

So I began to re-examine the doctrines. to sort out what was ACTUALLY supported by Scripture and what were the traditions of me wearing the robes of religion. over and over I could see i was being condemned by tradition, not by God. Among the major points - people citing Levitical law about clothing while not following it on any other point, people citing Paul while not practicing all of what Paul commanded (for instance, "let your women keep silent in the church") and, a big one, the difference in what different denominations considered "godly" dress. If the Baptists didn't feel bound to follow the Pentecostal idea of how people should dress - then MAYBE such things were the ideas of men and not of God.

Eventually I simply had to separate "the church" from my relationship with God. I believed in a God of grace and yet I was, in practice, serving a God of rules.

My relationship with the church now is non-existent, but my relationship with God is healthier than ever.

"Shep" spoke sincerely from the indoctrination he'd been subject to- honestly, it pains me to say that because it fuels the bullshit idea that everyone who's very "anti-gay" is just a gay person in denial. That's a lie. Such people are - like my wife is still - simply a product of their culture. For many people, conforming to their culture is a security blanket that they cannot lay aside. for me, it was my way to cling to my place among the "normal" - no one easily accepts that the are "abnormal"

I hate it took me so long to realize, and I hate that I've provided so much ammunition for people to attack ALL faith based on the places where believers abuse and misuse religion. but it can't be helped.

Did I miss anything?

Not me.
But, I'm lucky I was exposed to the MAD magazines, Garbage Pail Kids, Weird Al, Addam's Family, etc, etc, of the world from an early age.

Didn't take much to sort out "yeah, this is totally what I am, fuck those other people".

Maybe it's a generation thing.

Wow, that's a great way to maintain power over someone you abuse. Manipulation at its finest.

I've got plenty, including my wife - what's your excuse?

Oh, and...

Criticism isn't "attack", and I don't buy the whole "faith", concept from the roots up, sorry.

without getting too Blue Room here, your estimate is low but generally the observation is true.

the problem here, and in some other cases, is whether the resolution is respectful and civil or whether it's hostile and angry.

the latter isn't necessary, IMO.

It's an exercise in educating the un-informed.

The troll will never learn how ignorant they are, but the troll is not the only reader.

Granted there may always been unknown lurkers, but aside from that, who do you think you're educating?

No Shep, you're just doing what you always do, jumping in and slinging mud right along with the troll while simultaneously lamenting the fact that there's a troll who's trying to get a reaction out of you. Just be honest and admit that you enjoy the mud wrestling. You like the challenge. C'mon, admit it! You know you want to.....

She's educating me for one.

Interesting advice. How long have you been married?

Certain religious types hound on gays and trans people and their sins with impunity because they believe there is little risk it is a standard they will be held to.

They won't condemn divorce...a sin not only mentioned but specifically declared not legitimate by Jesus himself...because they might need it themselves someday.

In other words, they are massive hypocrites.

WHY THANK YOU!

At whom have I "slung mud"?

I think the consensus would be that I spoke in a far more respectful tone to CR and TLS then their posts might have warranted. I've not called anyone anything other than "ill-informed" to my memory).

By all means - direct my attention to the mud I've thrown.

I'm learning a bit (though I had some fairly decent larnin' about "alternative lifestyles" from the theater group my wife and I used to hang with). Mainly, I'm enjoying Nova's firm and absolute certainty of her decision, thorough knowledge on the subject, and clarity of explanation.