Flag Burning

It's disrespectful.

The US was founded on some very progressive principles (there, how's that?) but also on other principles upholding slavery and expansionism. Either way, to try to transplant respect for specific principles to respect for something as amorphous as a flag is to go off in a very dangerous direction.

The same flag can be a symbol of freedom to you and a symbol of oppression to me.

The OP quoted @Federal Farmer who did.

I see it as a legitimate form of protest of something that the protester sees as a "dire situation" in the country.

Burning the flag, IMHO, is a more extreme version of that.

Is there a little soul in the flag that dies and screams, and only patriots can hear it?
Who puts the souls in?
Is it a Chinaman in a factory?

Or do all the flags pull off of one core super-soul, like the All-Spark in Transformers?
And where does this super-soul reside?
Is it in the original Betsy Ross flag?
Where did she come by this flag super-soul?
Did Jesus give it to her?
How come this vital information has been left out of the story they tell in schools?
We have a hard enough time getting evolution taught, you'd think the flag-super-soul thing would be just as contentious.

OR, possibly, POSSIBLY, it's just a fucking piece of cloth that adults with the emotional development of toddlers get emotionally attached to like a child to its Teddy bear.

Probably because some people who burn the flag say as much.

You can have that perception if you want, but just know that you are in fact wrong about the motivations of most people who burn flags. You are missing a whole lot of what actually goes on in this country, and how people who live here feel about the meaning of citizenship when you subscribe to simplistic notions such as the idea that a person who burns a flag hates America.

No, these people don't hate America one bit.

I don't know whether they do, but burning a flag isn't the proof you seek.

Do you know how to make an argument that doesn't involve straw men?

You just missed the whole death to democracy and the calls for sharia part, huh? It is a wonder you can walk and chew bubble gum, Gul.

Americans bitch and moan way too much.

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/man-who-burned-union-jack-10844257

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13073324.Union_flag_burning_group_expelled_from_Salmond_rally/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6095260.stm

3 Seconds.

I take it you'll drop the video from you argument, then?

I like Dan, but when it comes to his political views I sense a lot of regurgitation & assumption, and little fact checking.

You idiot. I didn't even watch the video, because no matter what, it represents only the people in that video. Federal Farmer believes they represent all flag burners. Even you probably realize that is not the case, though no doubt you think they represent all Moslems.

They aren't American. So what's your point?

A non-American has the right to burn the flag in criticism if you believe in the spirit of your own country's democratic principles. A non-American has no loyalty to your country so has no emotional connection to the flag. A non-American is not legally or morally wrong in burning your flag, even if he is otherwise an undesirable.

You know, I'd actually like to thank @gul for this thread, because one of my biggest concerns about American society in recent years is the significant disconnect between many Americans and what the principles of liberty, freedom, justice and equality really mean. I think some comments in this thread are already very telling.

I'm quoting this post because @Dayton3 thinks it's dumb. The very same @Dayton3 that say that America isn't bound by any laws other than his own.

Can he explain how the people in that video are required to respect the American flag?

Nope. What about these idiots?

Dan is alright. Next time I'm in London (November) I'll try to meet him for a beer. He can even wear his I Gordon Brown T-shirt.

The point is that the flag burners clearly hate America.

He hated Brown (too right wing) and hates London (too dirty and too many wankers like me). So good luck with that.

We should have a reunion though. It's been, what, ten years now?

I'll just let FF and his hour ago self fight until they collapse into a pardox.

And?

So what if they hate America? What does that have to do with the opening post?

I've actually changed my view on it. I have no issue with it as it's far better than those who are actively working to destroy the country.

I don't think FF remotely grasps the topic of this thread.

Oh, does that clip show every flag burner? Must be too long to watch. You are making a really basic mistake here.

Yeah, close to 10. I'll PM you when I firm up my trip.

And how do you know that? Is it from the flag burning, or from other evidence?

Maybe they don't hate America. Maybe they just think it's a cool, edgy thing to do. This is after all the land that gave us the Bernie Bro.