Fraud at Texas state wrestling championships

Finally!

No. @Paladin is saying he should have been disqualified altogether, and that was where you joined that exchange earlier, which is where our frustrating dance started.

The 50% of trans people who attempt suicide in their life absent transition invite you respectfully to go fuck yourself with Negan's bat.

right. Shut up and go away because no one wants you here.

That's precisely what the bigots have demanded of all the various folks they look down on for centuries. It's only when the hated individual refuses to "go to the back of the bus" that things change.

And what this "proves" is that the Texas decision makers need to get their fucking shit together and stop pandering to bigots.

oh wait, Flashy's going full on TLS now?
Cool.
Coolcoolcool.

My days of not taking him seriously haven't even gotten close to the middle and now he's just going to concede any semblance of effort.

No.
You didn't.

you seem unaware of the details of the story.

The level of stupid in here is just through the roof with rightforge. Again, you want me to buy that testosterone itself will set off a PED drug test? That is just simply wrong. The different ways of juicing may act with the normal workings of testosterone on the system, but they are more involved and powerful. If they were the same simply being male would get you kicked unless you removed your testicles.

This is the problem here. You all are pretending to care. You do not care about this competition at all. You care about fucking with a trans person. If he was eating pizza the wrong way you would be all uppity about that. No one is really disagreeing with the idea this guy should be wrestling other guys. This guy thinks he should be wrestling other guys. The girls he is wrestling with think he should be there also. His parents think he should be there. Everyone in this thread agrees he should be competing with other guys because he is on their level. But then this guy might be happy if he was allowed to be a guy, so your little dick cannot have that. That means you turn into a big dick and say he has to avoid everything physically competitive.

Why don't you go tell those young Texas boys, in person, you think they are so weak and helpless they should not be allowed to wrestle with superman. That is what you are telling us. This guy isn't a regular guy because he was born a woman and now that makes him so physically superior to other men that we just simply cannot let superman embarrass them like that. It is ok for the girls to lose because they are used to being weaker in your eyes, but God forbid those male wrestlers lose to supersede who used to be a girl.

Thanks for your crocodile tears, but save that m for tonto the wannabe klan boy.

Actually no. The point of these discussions is not winning a competition of any athletic sort, but having one's personal autonomy in terms of their identity and medical care respected.

You my have heard the constant right wing bleating that if you allow trans girls to compete against other girls, they would dominate - yet we are STILL waiting for the very FIRST trans girl champion, or championship team with a trans girl member.

It's not happening. I'm sure at some point one will come along, but one - eventually - among what will end up being thousands of trans competitors who did NOT dominate won't prove the point the right wingers will want it to prove. Even in this case, Boggs only won after to wrestlers forfeited rather than wrestle against him. It's not at all certain he would have won in actual competition.

You lot can't seem to get it through your head - all trans people are asking for is to be respected in their right (god given right if you believe in that sort of thing) to the pursuit of happiness, the right of self determination, and the autonomy of ones own medical care. If every relevant authority in Texas grants Boggs these fundamental rights and interacts with him as a male, all these problems go away.

But Texas knows there's lots of votes and lots of donations to be had by pandering to Traditionalist "Christians" who have not a single fucking sliver of a clue about the actual medical facts on this subject but nevertheless posses strongly held opinions based on bigotry and bullshit. And so,as was pointed out upthread, they create the very problems they proport to be solving.

"Just go on and sit in the back of the bus like a good darky lest you wrong those white people that would have to sit behind you"

It's not.

The problem is not with your conclusion, but with where you assign blame.

I thought you were credited with being one of the smart ones here? You are certainly trying hard here to disabuse us of that notion.

NO ONE in this thread has maintained this was fair to the girls, in point of fact K. specifically stated so before you posted this.

The position is that the boy was wronged by not being allowed to wrestle with boys, and would also be wronged by not being able to compete at all because of the initial wrong. THEREFORE the only logical option is the Parks Maneuver - draw attention to the wrongs done by refusing to go away quietly.

The only other possible alternative would be to go to court, and as Gavin Grimm's case illustrates - a lengthy court battle means that even when you win on principle, you've already graduated so you suffer the discrimination regardless.

As I said above, the conclusion that the girls were wronged is quite sound - the problem you and FF are having is assigning the blame in the wrong place.

See this person?



This person has a vagina, still


Or this one?




I've never seen your photo but I'd give good odds either of them could kick the shit out of you and both your testicles.

See above.

aaaaaand THERE it is.

"I don't hate you, I just claim that there are areas of life where you don't belong. Sucks to be you and all that, now be a good second-class citizen and go away quietly"

or ignorance. The great majority of people who hold positions that are in effect anti-trans just don't know any better.

When they have the facts respectfully explained to them and they continue to irrationally hold the same view, it's logical to suspect bigotry plays a role.

Because of inability, not because of ignorance.

Why?

At the current state of medical arts (which is growing at an inordinate rate) Boggs will never have testicles or generate sperm.

In EVERY OTHER day-to-day function of maleness culturally and physically he is and will be able to match anything you could do,being an athlete, probably exceed you. His body will be (and apparently already is) male in every single respect other than external genitalia and chromosome pattern, neither of which mean a god damned thing to being a guy day to day in life (again, apart from reproduction)

Male-to-female transitions do not fare quite as well since, unless puberty is blocked (the wave of the future - in 50 years debates like his will be relics of the past as much as typewriters are today) , some will be taller and broader in ways that estrogen can't fix. But even then, in the daily function of being a woman day to day as one goes through life, there's no practical distinction other than reproduction.

You are assuming positions contrary to objective fact. When the day comes that every trans child is identified and supported prior to puberty, all of these issues go away. In the mean time, we should reach conclusions based on actual evidence, not on ignorant assumptions.

The two aren't exclusive. Something can be 100% physical and biological and 100% socially constructed at the same time. In fact, most things we know of are.

So when you were ten, you were not sure if you were a boy or a girl? When did you find out, middle school biology class?

I'm going to go out on a very think and strong limb and say you do not have the first fucking clue what transition in pre-adolescence consists of, or indeed, after that. Nor do you WANT to know because folks like you only want just enough data to confirm your prefered opinion and anything beyond that isn't of interest.

And what would that fucking point be, precisely? "Please, consider me an awful parent, shun our family and mock my child - by all means throw us out of the church, reject us in our own family, hold us up to ridicule, fire us from our jobs because we support our child, abuse us in any way you wise because we get off on that shit and love it when our ki is made a pariah."

THAT point?

See this kid?



Her parents were born and raised in South Alabama, lifelong Southern Baptists and Conservative Republicans. What point exactly do you suppose they wanted to make when they somehow brainwashed their second child into wanting to be a girl (which, by the way is bullshit - it was tried by Dr. Money and failed spectacularly, see: Reimer, David). One set of her own grandparents won't have anything to do with the family now. They were kicked out of their church and all their social groups, Avery lost every friend she had - not because the kids were not cool with her, they were - but because the parents insisted she be shunned. Their neighbors almost to a man reject them, their whole social structure disappeared. And they fared BETTER than a lot of families of trans kids do. The Jacksons and families like them (the Maineses in Maine, the McCoy family in Colorado, and may hundreds of others who never so much as make a newspaper story) fight tooth and nail for their child's rights.

While sanctimonious ignorant assholes recline on their sofa and wag their finger about shit the don't know a god damned thing about.

And what happens when parents take your wise counsel and resist their child's profession? See: Alcorn, Leelah.

Indeed, and medical professionals - the ones with actual knowledge, training, and experience in this field of study and treatment - already fucking know that and control for it from the jump, without having ever the need to consult ill-informed internet experts and concern trolls such as yourself.

There's a guy out there who's the leading proponent of the discredited claim that most trans kids desist by puberty, Dr. Kenneth Zucker, and EVEN HE says emphatically that if a child is still professing a gender identity counter to the sex assumed at birth that person will NEVER desist.

Here's a primer for your ignorant ass:
1. Before the onset of puberty, transition is social ONLY with NO physical medical intervention but only psychological counseling and monitoring. The child will change their outward presentation to the society around the (name, clothes, etc) with the full and clear understanding that if they change their mind they can revert with no consequence. There is no identified negative impact from this, and there is MUCH and GRAVE identified consequence of trying to repress and reverse gender identity claims. By virtually every known psychometric measure, trans kids who are repressed by parental rejection fare much worse than their non-trans peers, while those who are supported score almost exactly the same as their non-trans peers.
Also, few of them desist.
2. at the onset of puberty, an age when most of these kids have been consistently, persistently, insistently affirming their gender identity for 5 years or more, parents and professionals exercise caution and begin administering (if they can be afforded) puberty retarding medications (perfectly safe, having been used for years in other circumstances such as precocious puberty) which have NO irreversible physical effects and serve only to give the child EVEN MORE time to be absolutely certain of their decision. these can go on for as much as another five years (typically to 16, though some doctors will for long time patients go as early as 14)
3. Then and only then, after a decade of persistent identification, will hormones be administered. Surgery, with only very rare exceptions, is not available for minors.

In other words, opinions are swell. Informed opinions, however, are the only ones deserving respect.

Which is why every major medical and scientific organization relevant to the topic strongly endorses the benefits of transitioning and strongly discourages any attempt to repress childhood professions of a trans-sex gender identity.

That's an argument made by RadFems who actually are completely against trans identities. (not all RadFems are, but the ones who claim sex is completely a social construct are, as self contradictory as that claim is). Trans people and those who support them make no such claim. The most "radical" claim on our part is that (most) gender ROLES (those not actually dependent on physical attributes such as giving birth) within a given culture are social constructs, which is, ya know, not radical at all.

LOL. Literally every time you post you exude ignorance. The difference in male and female brains is something almost universally AFFIRMED by trans people and researchers in the field. While they disagree about the extent and nature of the differences, the fact that differences exist is a KEY if not indefensible support for the argument for a physiological origin for being born trans.

The analogy has been made and has no validity, but you haven't seen evidence for it, just speculation, because no evidence exists.

Bullshit. You've been lied to by religionists. Choose better sources.

It IS true that post-operative trans people have a marginally higher suicide rate than the general population - after all, they still have to live in a society overrun by condescending ignorant fuckers like you who make pariahs out of them. But that suicide (attempt) rate is WILDLY lower than it is for those who have not transitioned. Going from ~50% to something like 3% (IIRC) is a huge success, not a failing.

That's why we have, ya know, actually professionals who - imagine this - ACTUALLY KNOW SHIT to help us lest we have to rely on the tender mercies of some blowhard on an internet forum.

you miss the point brainchild.

NO ONE who is trans affirming argues Reimer proves gender is a social construct. That's what Dr. Money was trying to prove and he failed spectacularly and tragically.

NO ONE cites him as proof of gender dysphoria in the biological/birth sense because he only had it because it was forced on him.

What Reimer DOES prove is that a child, even a young child, KNOWS WHAT HEY ARE. Even when every last shread of external evidence insists they are wrong, they KNOW.

Reimer knew the same way you knew when you were fine, and the same way I knew. It's wired into your brain, no matter what the mirror says or your mama says or your doctor says or your preacher says.

no, you're just explaining how illegitimate we are, that's all.

What PART of his body - specifically?

Steroids - specifically the ones that increase muscle mass (anabolic) like @Paladin cited should definitely be illegal in any competitive sport. Your pissy retort to him doesn't really stand up there.

which in no way rules out the opportunity for the young man to compete against other boys.

Those steroids are in fact allowed under medical supervision for the treatment of recognized medical conditions.

Which being trans is. Ask the AMA among many other similar authorities. The IOC figured it out, the NCAA figured it out. Many other state athletic organizations figured it out.

Texas is just pandering to the ignorant.

Whatever you say there, Herr Goebbels.

I'd say the regressives have a harder time with that word.

And surprisingly, you have yet to actually refute my argument.

Which part? The bit where you claim that Yes means No, or the more elaborate bit where you say medical science must be false because it makes you feel uncomfortable?