Frontline rebuilds his house

Discussion in 'The Green Room' started by frontline, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    So living in Florida, its not all that uncommon to have a sinkhole under your house. What was uncommon was our insurance company not paying the policy off in full (thank the FL legislature for that). So we're not paying off the mortgage and living for free and then moving some where better. We're staying here and using the settlement money to repair the sinkhole damage and then doing a total renovation of the house, the pool, the patio, the landscaping, the drive way, EVERY THING. We're going to kind of self contract the process.

    First we hired a company to put pins (I.e. piers) into the ground and then slide them under the house to support it. The other way to do it is to pour grout (concrete) into the ground to fill the void. Pinning comes with a life time warranty and a fixed price. Grouting can be cheap or expensive depending on how much grout is really needed Vs. the project amount and comes with no warranty. So that leaves us with repairing the cosmetic repairs. First question is flooring.

    We have three types of flooring. Cheap assed white / pinkish tile that was put in when the house was built. Then this cool, stone looking tile that we replaced most of the carpeting with. Then there is carpeting in the master bedroom and closet. The carpeting and shitty builders tile is being replaced. I am going to replace them with wood. I'm hot on the Brazilian Cherry or African Mahogany. I like it that they have a red tint to them. Seems to make the floors feel warmer. I'm not hot on light or very dark woods. Ditto for hand scraped or distressed looks. Double ditto for bamboo. Just looks too cookie cutter. The question is what type of wood? Laminate, Engineered, or Wood? Im leaning towards engineered or laminate. I want this to be a floating floor. I'm trying to debate as to which one will hold up to the dog and the kids the best. So any ideas?

    Oh and we're already disagreeing about interior paint colors and themes in each room.
  2. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    Ugh. I'd love to give you advice, but there's just so much I don't know--my house decided a lot of things for me (or heavily influenced my decisions). Oh, and budget is always a factor. Both how much you can afford to spend and whether it is "lipstick on a pig". For example, I really wanted soapstone countertops in my kitchen. But for an 800 SQ house with 7' ceilings in a blue-collar neighborhood in the far-out suburbs, there was no way any buy would pay extra for them. My house will either wind up a starter house for a Mexican or Russian family or a retirement home for someone that can't maintain a McMansion and negotiate stairs any more.

    Any advice I could give would likely entail me walking the grounds and asking some questions. About the best I can do is mention the thought processes on my house renovations.

    I had a little cottage that was fundamentally in decent shape with a problem or two--but mostly just neglect and a couple poor decisions. (I plan to omit some of the renovation details like tearing down the "Crap Room" and redoing the facade for the porch for now).

    Place was built in the early 1950s and its last re-do had been in Early 21st Century Rental Property--beige walls, white trim, beige carpeting, vinyl in the kitchen and bath with a plastic tub surround. It had its original 1950s Davy Crockett kitchen cabinets (think stained wood with faux wrought iron fixtures), although the cabinets had acquired a coat of white paint (still the frontiersman fixtures, though). Since, IMO, the 50s were a terrible time for architecture, I went with more of a late 1920s feel (which is also accurate for a cottage). 1" tiles in a white with black pattern in the bathroom, brushed steel knobs and clamshell pulls in the kitchen. Soapstone (laminate) countertops. I yanked the terrible tub surround, big clunky vanity, and 1970s dressing room light in the bath and put in a pedestal sink with subway tile around the tub.

    If it was in the budget, I might've went with subway tile wainscoting, but instead I did beadboard. Found period-looking lights for the bathroom and a medicine cabinet that had hardware that matched the kitchen.

    In the kitchen, I'd had wainscoting--but it was terrible. I'm talking painted particle board. So I put in beadboard. This, along with the aforementioned hardware helped to unify the bath & kitchen. For most of the house I went with a cream color for the walls, with white trim and an accent wall in each room. a sort of brick red on the ends of the living room, a deep blue for the main bedroom, and an olive for the guest bedroom (that was initially my bedroom). I actually liked the original beige color with the olive accent wall, so that bedroom got a darker color for the secondary walls. Bathroom, the wainscoting was white to match the trim and the walls were a robin's egg blue. Kitchen wound up a sort of gold/buttercup.

    The gold is partly practical--hides grease better (Oh, I forgot to mention the subway tile backsplashes in the kitchen to match the tub surround in the bath), while the blue was a classic color for the bath (actually in demo-ing the tub surround I was surprised to find that was the original color (not hot pink)). The light blue in the bath also tied in with the dark blue in the master bedroom. Dark blue for the master bedroom was partly because it was a nice, stately color and partly because it would go well with the more gold/orange color of pines and oaks.

    The green in the guest bedroom was the color complement of the red in the living room. Then I added green accents in the living room (pillows, curtains) and red accents in the bedroom (dresser, picture frames, pillows) to pull the rooms together.

    To add a little "pop" to everything, on white walls I went with brass electrical plates (switches, plugs). It isn't entirely coincidental that I selected USMC colors (red and gold, dark blue, light blue, white, tan and olive) for the interior and on the outside I pretty much kept the original house color--a battleship grey that has a bluish tone with white trim. But for contrast I painted the door a bright fire engine red and when I redid the roof I went with a slate colored shingle--almost black. Then I threw on some black shingles. Pretty much you've got your dress blues colors on the outside. Not that anyone but me is going to pick up on that, I don't think.

    When I finally had the nerve to tear up the carpeting I found cedar in the bedrooms--really too soft for proper floors, but with rugs and good care, it should be fine. Gave it an oil finish to darken it and then threw on the polyurethane. The living room did have hardwood, but it was a mixture--some oak, some walnut, etc. I tried leaving it natural, but wound up doing a walnut stain. This actually worked quite well and I just happened to have bought walnut toned bookcase and tv table even before seeing the floor.

    So to reiterate, I really can't give any advice because the house is partly a reflection of your tastes and needs to complement your stuff and is partly a reflection of what will be most flattering to its layout and architectural style. Generally light colors make small rooms look larger (as do plenty of mirrors, but a dark floor can also make a small room look larger. And I used plenty of dark colors in a very small house, but I'm quite happy with the results.

    As far as wood floors, I like oak. But I tend to favor a very traditional feel for a place. If you ...cool. I was about to suggest mahogany over cherry and then I went back and saw those were your top two choices. Dunno about African or Brazilian, but I like the figure and depth mahogany has over cherry. But I think if you want that you need to spring for wood, not laminate.
  3. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Well one decision has been made: solid wood kitchen cabinets, Shaker style in cherry. We were go with unfinished, but the $2000.00 savings isn't worth it when compared with the enormity of this project and time it would be cost to finish them. Gonna go with granite counter tops.
  4. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Have you looked at Zodiac counters? It's a quartz-based material, looks a lot like granite only with more color options and you never need to seal it. Impervious to heat and stains, too.
  5. TheBurgerKing

    TheBurgerKing The Monarch of Flavor

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    the laminate flooring will turn out horrible, better to go with the engineered or actual wood (the price for it is really low right now, about $6-7sqft for decent quality)
  6. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    Out of rep, but that is always part of the equation: How much is your time worth? I'd say you made the right call. I only painted my cabinets (not stained) and they're still not where I'd like them.

    Light granite or a darker shade? What are you doing for the floor?

    Again, I hesitate to offer ala carte advice, but when I think cherry shaker cabinets and granite countertops, I think 12" travertine tile (in an asymmetric pattern).
  7. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Not necessarily - not if it's done right. I've seen both laminate and engineered and sometimes, unless you know, you can't tell a difference.
  8. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    I recommend Mennonites. They normally solve my problems.
  9. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Zodiac counters? Hmm now that's an idea. For color, I'm going to go with a lighter one. The tile in the kitchen is probably going to be a darker, stone looking tile. So I am going to need to lighten the area up a bit. We want the back splash and other accents to be Tuscan / Mediterranean in tone.
  10. ed629

    ed629 Morally Inept Banned

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    Something you might consider, you can also use engineered flooring or laminate flooring as a wall treatment. Use it like wainscoting with some moulding on the top and bottom edges to dress it up.
  11. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok so we're getting closer. The ground construction crew is on the way here. So today they will be putting the pins in. Even though the utilities have been marked by the county I'm praying that these guys don't cut an electrical line or puncture any of the water or sewer pipes.

    Meanwhile over the weekend we decided to go into some model homes and snag pictures to take home. To accomplish we had your 11 year old son who is cute and adorable and has loads of charisma to distract the agents in the home so we could snap some photos. Here are the ones that we liked a lot.

    For bathrooms here are some ideas so far as tile and borders:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We may put in quartz in ours but I am also considering solid surface (I.e. Corrianne) in ours. We have hard water and I worry about stains. The kids will get solid surface simply because they are kids and will fuck the place up.

    Around the pool we are gonna go with pavers instead of repairing the cool decking. Yeah it's gonna be a few dollars more expensive per square foot to put in, but the resale value is worth it.
    [​IMG]

    I like these colors. The blue will go into our bedroom and a darker shade in the dining room. Probably a beige or taupe in the main hallways. The green will probably go in the formal living room which will be re-branded the billiards room. I'm pulling out the useless furniture in there and putting in a pool table so the room actually gets used. For formal dinners I can put a topper on it. Likewise the formal dining room will become the kids media room. Again why have 120 SF of space that I use twice a year. This will fly in Florida because the society is very informal. Formal parties are few and far between.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now I saw this little detail on the ceiling. Its a inexpensive thing to do and adds character. I also never thought of painting the ceiling before. Now I'm sold.

    [​IMG]

    Finally the kitchen. This is the look we are going for. Just swap the cabinet faces out for shaker style.

    [​IMG]
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  12. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh and the cool thing is that if you bust your ass, you can save a lot of money. For instance we found a brand new to our area chain store that does kitchens and bathrooms. They are having a huge grand opening sale and will offer 4% off if we pay cash. The plumbing fixtures will be ordered online. Nice tile can be had for a good price if you get left over lots. Then there is the sweat-equity. We'll be doing as much of the demo work as we can. Neighbors have also started to ask about the old kitchen cabinets, furniture, and tiles that can be saved. So we're willing to barter for installation help.
  13. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh as for the bathrooms, one way to save some cash is to put kitchen lower cabinets in the bathrooms. We'll be doing that in the master bathroom. The nice thing about them is that they are 36" high. The kids will get the standard vanity cabinets that are 30" high.
  14. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    The middle bathroom picture is the same tile I had picked out a couple years ago - never did redo that bathroom ...

    I looked at bathroom cabinets that stood off the floor - about 4 inches - it raised the bathroom cabinet/counter and I could sweep and mop under them. No idea why that's a big deal to me, but it is.

    and ..., is your pool/patio area screened in? I'm so jealous.
  15. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    My wife had the same desire for the bathroom vanities and I vetoed that idea pronto. That elevated area is prime dust bunny and other crap territory. The pool and patio is indeed screened. Its a plus but also a drag. Living in Florida you almost have to do this, however it does change your landscaping options. For instance I'd love to put in an outdoor kitchen and a pergola. Im meeting with a landscape architect today for lunch to get ideas. The other problem is that I have a nasty slope that leads to the conservation area. So Im thinking of renting a bob cat and terracing the back yard. Actually the terracing will look like the bridge of the -D Enterprise with a sunken level, but grass ramps on either side so I can get the lawn mower in and out. It will also make the yard ADA friendly. Since I plan on staying here for a long time and my body is starting to give me problems that is a huge concern for me.
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  16. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    When we renovated the house we bought in '07 we did a lot of the work ourselves. Almost all the demolition was us, and most of the structural stuff. We contracted for the tile - a non-trivial skill and we wanted it done properly - and a kitchen designer who brought in a construction outfit to do cabinets and counters and stuff. These guys also did some electrical and plumbing, but we did other electrical stuff ourselves. Easy things like swapping out switches and outlets, that sort of crap. We set our own sinks and toilets, too, rather than pay the plumber to do it. Luckily my wife's father is skilled at this stuff, and I've picked up a few tricks myself over the years, so we were well able to do a lot of things ourselves.
  17. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Yea, I was watching a lot of DIY shows at the time. I think I would probably have been able to handle the tile, but setting the cabinets would have to havebeen contracted out for me.

    the yard idea sounds cool Frontline. I had a similar situation between my yard and the neighbor's yard. The fence sits at the lowest point, then a steep upgrade about a foot and a half to the patio. When I left, I'd been there two years without any real ideas on how to fix that spot.
  18. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    The DIY shows aint what they used to be. I miss HomeTime with Dean and the chick of the season. That show really took its time showing you how to do stuff.

    Oh and pretty big damned problem. The pool pump, cleaning system, and all the goddamned piping is right fucking where they need to excavate. Fuck me. Gotta dig the shit out of that and move everything. The only upside is that I have been wanting to change out the valves and this is the time to do it.

    On the upside the A/C system croaked last week. So we got a new compressor and air handler. We saved the old air handler, which is a heat pump, and will be connecting it to the pool to heat it. A lot more economical than gas. We're also planning on putting a solar heating system on the pool loop to help keep electrical costs down.
  19. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    I loved that show. Much better than This Old House - which was still a good show, but that guy ... Bob(?) would rather chat with the camera than show you what his workers were doing.

    Good luck with the solar heating system for the pool. I've heard nothing but good things about those.
  20. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    A couple thoughts, in no particular order:

    Home shows always seem to fall in the trap of needing to top themselves. Waaaay back when "This Old House" started, Bob and Norm would show you how to install fiberglass batting insulation. Eventually it became weird and esoteric on how to install a robotic bidet and stuff like that. Same went for "Home Time." "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition", they started out figuring out practical ways to renovate a problem home. Now they tear them all down to install garish monstrosities with robotic bidets: "Little Billy likes Transformers, doesn't he? Let's do an Optimus Prime robotic bidet in his bathroom!"

    Complementary colors and contrasts work for room design. That's why the green-colored stone countertops work well with the red-toned wood cabinets. You just don't want to make it too obvious. If something is really, really blue, you want to go with a very subtle orange, for example--with navy blue walls, a red oak floor will do the trick.

    That bathroom photo, the wallpaper is an absolute mistake, in my opinion. Adding another stone texture with the stone tiles and stone countertops, in a color that is a midpoint between the two just makes it all blend together and get muddy. The white doors don't work either, IMO (should match the cabinet), but I digress. You could make some cream color work for the walls, but personally my first choice would be some shade of olive or possibly even an avacado.

    I never knew how much every home needed a billiard room until the time I went to a party at a place where the housemate that owned the dining room table moved out and they replaced it with a pool table. That said, what color will the felt be? The traditional green? If so, I don't know if I'd go with green for the walls. It could work--more later--but, one-trick pony that I am, I'd favor some kind of dark red. "Brick red," "rust red," and Moroccan red" all come up with hues that are sort of what I'd think of--a brown-red. You could make a green felt and green walls work, though. A monochromatic palette is something other people use very well. But if you go that route you've got to go whole hog. Traditional green felt on a dark walnut table (maybe just a hint of green to the wood hue), Matching walnut floors, picture frames, and furniture. Possibly even walnut wainscoting. Actually now that I think about that, I really like it. It ties in with the pool table, where you've got wood sides with a green top. As an added benefit, then you get chair rails to lean pool cues against so you don't have chalk marks on your wall. Again, I'd go with a fairly neutral green for the walls, some kind of olive color. And probably a cream colored ceiling (maybe just a hint of green in that as well). Definitely a brass pool table light with green-green shades. Probably brass electrical plates (switch and plug) to pick up on the light. Now that I think about it, a reddish hue to your wood--as long as it is a dark, dark wood would also work with that sort of color scheme.

    A final note: That blue you like works well with a comparable shade of yellow too. Yellow isn't actually the complement of blue, but they are both primaries and they work well together. Blue walls with a pastel yellow ceiling (with the white plaster accents) or the pastel blue ceiling with a mustard/ochre wall would look nice, I think.

    Of course that is all just my thoughts. Take them for what you will.

    Oh and thanks for the photos. They give me a direction to go from. Since I think visually, they are more helpful than "Here is what I like..." .
  21. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok and some construction photos.

    Where they had to pull out the pool pump becuase the original contractor was a dumb ass and ran the pipes RIGHT.NEXT.TO.THE.FOUNDATION :ua:

    [​IMG]

    The pool that is now drained 2/3rds :garamet:

    [​IMG]

    First they dig the holes out around the home. We have 40 pins to be sunk. They got 21 done today

    [​IMG]


    Then they drive the pins into the gorund using these bob cats that have a hammer attachment on them:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Next the slide an L bracket over the pipe

    [​IMG]

    Then they ratchet up the L bracket until it makes contact with the footer. The bracket is then secured to the footer. The idea here is that a majority of the weight of the house is not in the poured concrete slab foundation. The majority of the weight sits on top of the footers. So by supporting the footers, a chasm could open up under the house and the house would still be standing

    [​IMG]


    Oh and they left the keys in the Bob cats :diablo:
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  22. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    Oh, one final design tidbit (that I think I mentioned earlier): A technique I picked up in [art] painting is "a light, a bright and a dark." A good example of this is, I went with a black (dark) roof and shutters on my facade, a (for lack of a better word) battleship grey (light) for the primary color, and a (bright) red door. The glossy white trim is bright and light. The room I type this from has a dark blue accent wall and curtains, light, bright cream colored walls, and bright brass fixtures.

    Your pin thing reminds me of a high-tech, less redneck version of what I did when I poured the slab for the garage. It had an unmortared cinderblock footing on one side, under a beam. So I left a block in every 6-8 feet, dug out and pulled the rest of the blocks. Then when my concrete guy came in, the slab ran under the beam and took the weight off the cinderblocks. Sort of the opposite of what you did.
  23. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    Cherry is good for the cabinets. One of the nicer kinds of woods that not a lot of people buy.

    Personally I like Knotty Alder with a rustic finish.
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  24. Mullet Man

    Mullet Man Banned

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    Once the repairs are complete, does the insurance company have to recalculate your policy? What are the chances of a repeat?
  25. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    After the repairs are done the house should be rock solid. The ground could open up and so long as the crater isn't more than 40' deep we will be ok. The statistical possibility of that happening is slim to none. As for the insurance company....

    I could write a tome about them. Let me try to keep it brief. We had enough damage to where they should have paid off the policy and we would then have paid off the mortgage with a butt ton of money left over. Then you sell the home to some "1-800-We Buy Ugly Homes" outfit for about 1/4 of the value of the house. Then you walk away with even more money to buy another house, invest, spend on penile implants, etc...

    However at that time (19 months ago) the FL legislature was trying to pass a bill that would make it nearly impossible for home owners to file a sinkhole claim. So all the insurance carriers stone walled the policy holders until the legislation passed (and it did in May of this year). So we had to sue. Took about 18 months and we won about 2/3rds of our policy limits. So we have been forced to make the repairs. We're renovating as well because we are hoping that the market rebounds in 10 years and that we can sell the house then. It has a better chance of selling if it doesn't have the contractors tiles / cabinets / etc..

    As for our insurance company, they pulled out of Florida over a year ago. We are now stuck with the state run insurance program of last resort (Citizens). Normally we would be getting raked over the coals. However since the house is being remediated, we do not have to carry sinkhole insurance. So our insurance bill is a lot less.
  26. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Man and I thought I scored a trifecta tonight. First we went to two tile places. One really only deals with contractors and had almost nothing on display. The other place was a close out store and their selection wasn't that great. So then went to IKEA on a mission: To find closet organizing stuff. Ya know the "California Closet" type of organization. Well we went, found what we wanted, got prices (to plug into the budget) and then were off the Safe store

    I have been dying for a better / bigger safe for our firearms. I selected one, and then in the back I found another one (Liberty Fat Boy Jr.). It was perfect. It only had a depth of about 25". It would fit fantastically. But I needed to check the dimensions of the closet to ensure that it wouldn't screw with the IKEA stuff. My lovely bride does the quick calcs and says it will work. So I order the safe. Then we get home

    Because I'm an anal retentive SOB I decide to boot up AutoCAD and play with the new items and just triple check that everything will fit like we though. Yeah big screw up on our part. So I came up with a plan that will work, but it means going back to the more expensive safe I had originally wanted (Liberty Franklin 35). *sigh*
  27. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok we bought the wood laminate flooring (african mahogany) and the closet organizing system. Now the boy and I are trying to tear up the floor with a chisel and sledge. Fuck this noise. Tomorrow I am renting an electric jack hammer.
  28. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Negatory. This is what you want. We used one when we did our house and it goes thru tile, old linoleum, glued-down hardwood, anything. Saved us a huge amount of labor.
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  29. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    I saw one in use the other year in use at a Walmart. Aboslutely amazing. Yep Im gonna rent one tomorrow if I can. Brilliant suggestion. Thanks. I have managed in two hours to do a whopping 12 square feet out of a total of 580 square feet that needs to be ripped up.
  30. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok well I couldn't find that tool. I also worked out a deal with my GC on labor that is gonna save me a metric ass-ton of labor costs. So I'm letting them rip up the tile. They were supposed to be done yesterday with ripping up the tile and putting down the laminate floor. Unfortunately while the rest of the house was built like shit, the tile contractor did a damned good job. They put down so much thinset that had a nuke gone off the tile would have remained. So what they are going to do is knock off as much of the thin-set as they can and then put a skim coat of concrete down to level off the floor. Once that cures they will put the laminate down. Im ok with this. Downside is that I cant return home until Tuesday :bergman: