Okay, let me set the stage. Next week, we start annual firearms qualifications. Today kicked off a week long series of remedial classes taught by yours truly. So, this afternoon, during downtime, I went ahead and qualified using another firearms instructor as proctor. Every officer in this agency is issued a Glock 22 (full-size .40SW pistol). Detectives and everyone else with the rank of Sergeant or above is also issued a Glock 27 (sub-compact .40SW pistol) for back-up work, concealed carry, or regular duty carry in the case of the Detectives and most Administrative Personnel. All officers must qualify with their Glock 22's, 27's (if applicable), and any of the other weapons on the very short approved list that they may plan to carry through the course of the next year. The qualification course consists of 50 rounds fired at prescribed distances in a set length of time under an overall time limit. Each round fired counts two points for a total of 100 possible points. You must score a minimum of 70 to pass. I scored 100 with my 1911. I scored 100 with my Glock 35 (extended slide version of the Glock 22 that has been heavily customized). I scored 100 with my Sig P220. I scored 100 with my Glock 23C (compact .40SW pistol). I scored 100 with my Glock 21SF (full-size .45ACP pistol). I scored 100 with my Glock 27. I scored 72 with my Glock 22. I was shocked. So, I elected to shoot the course again. I scored 70. So, the other instructor is gracious enough to let me use his gun. I scored 74. I use one of my trainee's guns. I scored 72. I used a Sheriff Deputy's Glock 22 (totally different agency, totally different batch of gun). I scored a 70. Now I'm beginning to see why our overall qualification scores have been dropping. I pushed the sights. I used Kentucky windage. I just couldn't fix it. I'm consistantly hitting 18-20 inches to the left of my aimpoint at 25 yards and that's after pushing the rear sight so far I'm scared they're going to fall off the gun during shooting. What doubly perplexes me is that I scored a 100 with my Glock 35 which uses the exact same frame as a Glock 22. When I got home, I started doing some research thinking I was losing my mind and apparently several (but not many) agencies used Glock 17 (full-size duty pistol identical to the Glock 22 except for being chambered in 9mm) for a decade or more with good results, but had rotten results when they switched to Glock 22s. When they switched back, whatever problems existed corrected themselves and they started turning in better scores. Over the next few days, when time allows, I'm going to do some experimentation. I'm going to use my 35 frame on my 22 barrel and slide and use my 22 frame on my 35 barrel and slide, just to get the process of elimination going, but at this point, I'm totally perplexed.
Well try to also remember that everyone has a bad day at the range, even the most experienced shooters. It's just a simple fact of marksmanship.
What kind of trigger do you have on your Glock 22? Is it a standard Glock trigger? What kind of trigger do you have on your other Glocks? I remember you had at least one with a lighter job done to it. When you were shooting your sig, were you doing any of it double action?
Sure, but I scored 100's with everything else. You must have missed the part where I scored a 100 with my 1911? 'Swhat I carry every day. I just have to qualify with the 22. Fair point, and I considered that. But, we're not allowed to modify our issued guns in any way and I scored a 100 with the 27. As for the Sig, yes. Eight of the 50 rounds were in DA.
Fuck no. It was horrible. At 3 yards you would struggle covering a five round group with a pie plate. At 25 yards I wasn't even on paper, which is where my score tanked. But, it can't be ammunition. I was shooting the same cartridges out of the same lot as the other .40SW's I shot.
Frankly, I've shot neither. The 35 is my favorite Glock by far, but it's my nightstand gun 'cause I just leave one of my lights on it. I clean it regularly, but I bet I haven't shot it in at least ten months before today. But, this is the first time I've ever shot this particular 22. Since coming to this agency, I've either carried my 1911 or my 35. I mainly qualify with so many weapons 'cause of liability. If I'm ever forced to act away from the job and if there is a civil case, I can show that I'm a certified police officer and I used a weapon that my department approves and I'm qualified on.
Hmm, didn't Glock have a problem when they first started to produce their 40s, which were barely modified 9mms? Ive heard other rumbling on other boards.
Speaking of which... I need to go to the range and get some "official" marks down on my 1911, when it gets back from the factory.
I think that was more of a concern about the unsupported chamber causing catastrophic KaBooms with reloads than inaccuracy.
This pretty clearly sounds like a problem with Glock 22s, and no other factor. What it could be I can't imagine.
Seriously, though. It could be that the grips just aren't right for your hands. I got no idea what your course of fire looks like and I assume you already know this, but what the hell...IF the firing is from a weapon that is already drawn, you can "load" the pistol into your hand to make it point where you want it to. Open your shooting hand, and press the backstrap into the web of your hand as high as you can and get a good firm grip. Wrap on your supporting hand (in whatever stance you prefer) and quickly point at the target--without aiming. Once you're there, freeze and get on the sights to see how far off you are. Then use your supporting hand to reposition the grip in your firing hand--if the point of aim is a little high, scoot the angle of the grip down a little. If it is pointing a little to the right, rotate the grip in your hand accordingly. Do this until it gets so when you quickly come up with the gun into a shooting position, it is naturally aimed in. (You can adjust your foot placement too, if you want.) Once you've got that, don't alter your grip with your shooting hand at all. If the grip for the Glock 22 is significantly different than any of the other pistols, this should help a lot. (Again, if you aren't shooting drills where you draw from a holstered weapon.) Last thing I would suggest is that at this point a chunk of your problem is mental. Your brain has decided you'll shoot a low 70 with a Glock 22, so subconsiously it is going to do what it needs to do to prove itself right (by making you miss). If that's what's happening, you've got your hands full. Because once your little brain starts telling you "whatever you do, don't fuck up again" that's a challenge to break.
Glocks are built to be...fairly...interchangeable with most parts for 9mm, .40SW, .357Sig, and .45GAP family being interchangeable and 10mm and .45ACP family being interchangeable. The frames can be easily interchanged 'cause their identical. A Glock 22 frame is identical to a Glock 17 frame. A Glock 23 is identical to a Glock 19 frame. A Glock 27 is identical to a Glock 26 frame. A Glock 35 frame is identical to the Glock 22, Glock 17, and Glock 34 frame. The only difference between the frames is overall length and grip length. A Glock 23's grip is just a Glock 22 grip cut shorter so the magazine holds two less rounds. A Glock 27 grip is just a Glock 23 grip cut shorter so the magazine holds two less rounds. With that in mind, I scored 100 with a Glock 35 (the EXACT same frame as a 22), Glock 23C (just two rounds shorter than a Glock 22), and Glock 27 (just four rounds shorter than a Glock 22). But, what I was working on today tells me that maybe, just maybe, the frame may be a little warped. I won't know for certain until I can put my 35 slide assembly on my 22 frame and my 22 slide assembly on my 35 frame later in the week. Good advice. But, I'm already used to doing that. Because I have to quickly shift between the full-size, compact, and sub-compact versions, I'm used to taking the grip in holster or at ready-low as high as possible to compensate for the reduced grip length.
Found it! I put my 35 slide assembly on my 22 frame. I shot the course. I then put my 22 slide assembly on my 35 frame and shot the course. I don't know what yet, but something's buggered in that 22 frame.
Oh, and yeah... I'll continue to stick to the 1911. I state again, for the record. If God carried a gun, it'd be a Les Baer 1911.
I tell ya', if I go back to Iraq again and I have a choice between an M9 and a .357 I won't even have to think for a second. Hell, if they told me I was going again and (again) told me I couldn't bring a personal weapon I'd still consider bringing along a .357. I've heard the 1911 does very well in the Iraqi desert too, but in that harsh environment, a nice wheelgun--with decent knockdown power--would be a good thing to have.
The 1911 does well in every environment. You would be crazy to take a .357 over there vs. a 1911 sir. Crazy. I'd have to go Seven of Eleven and contact the FBI if you did that.
