Glocks

So CJSOTF-A is doing a group buy on commemorative Glocks. I haven't seen any pictures yet, but it will most likely have the crest etched on them. The prices range from the mid 400s for the 9mm and 508 for the 45 SF version (what the hell is the SF version and is it worth it?). I don't know much about Glocks, is this a good deal? I'm not sure if we're going to have the money OR if I want to buy one (it will depend on how customized they do it, plain jane I'll just wait, but if it it's got the dates, crest, etc and looks pretty cool I might be tempted) but I'm trying to get enough information to make the decision.

How's the 45 in a Glock? I'm pretty much looking at that or the 9mm. I've got enough different kinds of ammo to keep up with already. On the one hand I like .45 better, but on the other I already have a 1911 and don't have a 9mm (Anne does though). I know Glocks have a problem with exploding, is this worse in .45?

Also there are different trigger options. 5.5, 8.3, NY1 and something else I believe. What's y'alls recommendations on that?

Not a gun expert per se, but I think there's enough competition in the gun world that you might want to shop around for a non-exploding brand.

Glocks do not have a exploding problem. A myth pushed by people who don't like them or fools who talk without thinking.

There were some Glock 22 (.40) that when they first came out did explode but that problem was quickly solved.

A Glock that KB's today is due to user error. A abused gun or the user is using defective rounds or doing something else to the gun. (Do not fire lead bullets through a Glock barrel)

Same as any other gun, rifle or handgun.

The Glock 21 SF (short frame) is designed to make it easier for a person to grip the gun and pull the trigger. It's exactly like the Glock 21 in terms of rounds carried (13).

"The SF model reduces the circumference of the receiver at the rear, or "back strap," offering increased comfort and control—especially for shooters with smaller hands." from http://www.teamglock.com/products/model/g21sf

It would be best if you could get your hands on both guns and shoot some rounds with each to decide what you like.

Friend of mine has the Glock 21. Loves it. Says the recoil is good and smooth.

As for triggers.....

http://www.glock.com/english/options_triggerspring.htm

I'd stick with the standard. New York City Police had a problem with some officers being stupid and ND-ing their Glocks when the first got them. So New York came up with the idea of making the trigger pull harder.

Some people think the NY-1 is better overall. Again it comes down to personal preference. I and everyone I know that has a Glock use the standard trigger pull.

http://www.teamglock.com/products/all

I have two Glocks and plan to acquire at least a couple more. I think they are great guns: reliable, accurate, capacious, well-made, and a great value.

The SF model (which only shaves a few millimeters off the grip width, actually) makes the grip substantially more comfortable. I have big hands and, though I have no problem holding my G20, I do prefer the feel of the G20SF/G21SF.

The rest has already been covered, so I'll jump on this. 5.5lbs is the Plain Jane factory trigger setting. I've never heard of an 8.3lb trigger, but it may be some European requirement. NY1 is the infamous "New York Trigger." NYPD had some horrible, horrible negligent discharges after switching to Glocks. But, rather than teach their officers to keep their fingers off the triggers until they're ready to shoot, the Department had Glock install 11lb triggers.

I'm not a fan of commemorative guns at all, but I hope this has helped.

Edit: Oh, the history of the SF model. The DoD put out a request for bid on a new .45ACP pistol to replace the Beretta. The Glock 21SF was Glock's entry. Then the DoD cancelled the program.

Thanks all.

And by commemorative I just mean a deployment gun. It's pretty common.

As for borrowing a few and trying them out, kinda hard where I'm at.

The Marine's carry them, but only one model. I've shot one before, it's the comparison between them I've never done.

Damn I hate hard pulling triggers! I want a trigger so smooth I only have to breath on it. Yes, I'm showing my age, having grown up with revolvers and usually shooting single action at that.

Glocks are quite popular...

I've heard the Golden Retriever called "America's dog".

Is the Glock "America's gun"?

And if so, does this mean a foreigner trying to assimilate should always have on them 1.) a Glock 2.) a Golden Lab 3.) a can of Budweiser and 4.) a slice of pepperoni pizza?

Say "yes".

Glocks are great all around guns. All things being equal, you can't really go wrong with one. I'd do the 9mm if you've already got a .45. The exploding thing was overblown. Glock's microgroove barrels aren't forgiving with reloads, so just don't use reloads. There was talk about a design flaw that exacerbated the problem (unsupported chamber), but they fixed that a while back. Just use factory ammo and you've got nothing to worry about.

Debatable. Glock is most certainly the gun of American Law Enforcement and has been for the last two decades. But, it's days look like it may be numbered.

Glock's ergonomics suck because Gaston Glock fashioned the grip angle after the Luger, then the preeminent military and police handgun in Europe. Americans grew up shooting Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers, Browning Hi-Powers, and the always amazing Colt 1911 so the grip angle is very, very foreign to someone that grew up in that environment. But, where Glock wins is reliability and price.

Glock will do almost anything, including selling weapons as a loss, to get their guns in the hands of American cops. I can buy a brand new in the box Glock 17, 19, 22, or 23 for $400 (all taxes included) with three magazines (a $26 value add at retail prices). That's actually below the Dealer's Cost. Glock offers a rebate to the Dealer on qualified LEO purchases to make up for the loss.

The price per unit for Agency Sales is between 1/2 and 2/3rds of that. The next closest competition is about $200 more. When you're an Agency buying 100 guns (our case) or 60,000 (NYPD), that price difference really starts to add up.

Smith & Wesson's M&P line is starting to gain market share on Glock. I don't think it's because any quality or shooting difference, but it's because S&W has finally got their act together and they're offering competitive Agency Pricing (even though they refuse to compete in the Individual Officer pricing market, to their detriment IMHO). People are also fed up with some questionable business decisions that Glock had made regarding returns and warranty work.

Hmmm... doing more research it appears every Glock offering except the .380s and the Compensated models are up for grabs, with the price going from low 400s to just over $500.

Thanks for the above, but some questions. When did Glock start making single stacks? Are they reliable? What is this Gen4 mess?

There is no problem using reloads. People have been shooting millions of them with Glocks.

Problems with reloads come from people making bad loads or stupidly shooting lead through a Glock barrel.

The Glock 36. Yes. Very much so.

Gen 1: The original production gun.

Gen 2: A new texture pattern on the grip and finger grooves on the grip.

Gen 3: All the previous and a Glock proprietary integral light rail.

Gen 4: A new texture pattern on the grips, a new removable/interchangeable backstraps, and a slightly remolded rail to conform more easily with the 1913 standard.

Do they still have the little secret compartment in the backstrap for hiding your Tic Tacs?

Yup.

I used to have the DoD 21SF.



It was a good gun. But, the DoD required a 1913 rail so finding leather was next to impossible. Glock has since changed it to their rail, so any leather for a 21 will fit a 21SF.

Admittedly, I don't know much about Glocks. Never owned one. What's the issue with firing lead bullets?

Just from what I've read: Glocks use octagonal rifling which may promote leading (buildup of lead on the bore which could constriction and dangerous pressure levels) or fouling (lead residue that keeps the mechanism from opertating propoerly).

But I haven't really seen any non-jacketed auto-pistol bullets beyond the super-massive solids from Buffalo Bore, etc. Other than that, I don't know why anyone would want to shoot lead bullets.

That's it. Polygonal rifling, not microgroove. I was thinking of Marlin 39s for some reason.

Oh! Important side note.

Glock 21 magazines. Due to the reversible Magazine Release on the 21SF, Glock 21SF Magazines will work in a Glock 21, but Glock 21 magazines will not work in a Glock 21SF.

Now, since the release of the 21SF, Glock has only made 21SF magazines. But, an awful lot of old 21 magazines are floating around out there. You can tell if the magazine is compatible by looking at the picture I posted above. The magazine must have that small indention on the right hand side about two inches from the top.

I have heard that the 21 mags WILL work in a 21SF, but only IF the magazine release is not reversed. Is that true? I'm planning on getting a 21SF down the road and would like to use some "newly found" pre-ban 21 mags. I found this posted in another forum (bold emphasis mine)...

Also, I just saw a video on YouTube that shows a Gen 4 21SF, although the website makes no mention of one...

The way the barrel is designed leads to a build up of lead particles which can cause a KB if too much builds up.

You can fire lead but you've got to clean it thoroughly after your done shooting.

There are Gen 4 Glock 21SF's. I held one last Wednesday. That said, what you posted may very well apply to the Gen 4 guns. But, I assure you that standard Glock 21 mags would not work in the early production 21SF I posted a picture of earlier. The "other" non-button side of the mag release fit in the slot cut into the magazine and was released when you pressed the magazine release button.

I hear contradictory things but it sounds like the following is true:

1. 21SF magazines will work in a 21.

2. 21 magazines will work ONLY in 21SFs that DON'T have the ambidextrous magazine release. If the 21SF has the standard magazine release, then the 21 magazines will work.

3. None of this changes in Gen4.

Re: Running a 5K

Whelp, today was the last day, decision time. $534 for a G36, 5.5lb Trigger and Trijicon NS. Not too shabby. My father got one as well.

In other words just buy the G21 and skip the SF silliness.

Might be the best answer. I have the G20 (same size grip as the G21) and don't have much of a problem with it. Still, I think shaving a few millimeters off would make for a more comfortable, more solid grip.

Welp, I may just have to accidentally "find" some G21SF magazines...

I almost didn't see the new comment in this thread from 2 days ago!