Gunforge, Hook A Brotha Up

Within a couple years, ideally, Chicago will lose in court about its ban on handguns.

At that time, I plan to exercise my constitutional right to own one.

But as a gun novice, I would appreciate some advice.

What gun would be good to start out with? Should I go with a handgun, and if so, any particular recommendations. I would only be using it for home defense and target practice at a range.

Do commercial ranges rent guns for practice, and if so, roughly what's the going rate.

What should I do to get comfortable with guns between now and then?

What are some other resources I might want to check out?

Serious responses only, please.

Let's move this one to Camp Wordforge so as to avoid any drama that would take the topic off track...

WHOOOOSH!

A handgun is a good choice for home defense. And frequent practice is what makes it effective for that purpose. I would suggest a good quality 9mm semiauto for you. Many feel that 9mm is pretty marginal for defense, but its light recoil makes for easy handling and its small size allows for more rounds in a magazine, both of which are big positives. Hey, my home defense gun is a 9mm.

I'm sure you'll get lots of advice on makes and models in this thread. Since you want it for home defense, I've excluded the lesser calibers (.380 and down) from consideration. Bigger calibers (.357 magnum, .45 ACP) are excellent defense rounds, but probably not a good choice for a beginner, nor are they very economical to shoot. I think semiautos are a better choice than revolvers because of their higher capacity.

Look them over at the shop, try them out at the range. You'll find something that suits you. Glock, Smith&Wesson, Springfield Armory, etc. are all good brands.

Can't say about Chicago, but all the ranges here rent guns. I'd say the going rate is less than $10. A friend of mine and I rented a couple of guns a few months back and the cost wasn't an issue.

Realize that a gun is a tool and, like any tool, it's only dangerous to its user when used improperly. You probably don't worry about running over people with your car everytime you drive, and you probably don't worry about chopping off your fingers with a steak knife. Familiarity and knowledge will make you comfortable with guns.

Learn the rules of gun safety. The basic three are these:

1. Don't point a gun at anything you would mind getting shot.
2. Don't load a gun until you're ready to shoot.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

Bear in mind that, for an accident to happen, ALL THREE of these rules must be violated.

I'll look around and post some, but here's a start:

NRA Gun Safety Rules

Excellent.

Of course!

For home defense your best choice, especially as a Novice, is a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Either in 12 guage, either with 00 buckshot. When you rack that slide, it's enough to scare the heck out of anyone into leaving... then if they don't leave, you have them owned.

Yes. Mostly handguns though. Your best best is to start out by taking a hunter's safety course. Most do a good job teaching gun safety. Rental is normally range fee + ammo (varies) + 10-20 to rent. Many ranges will let you swap out rentals in the same session.

After you take your safety course, shoot, shoot, and shoot.
What are some other resources I might want to check out?

Also, join the NRA. Take some of their safety classes. Understand the law in your state pertaining to the use of lethal force. Heck, I drive through IL sometimes. I'd make a stop and help 'ya out.

Paladin, I disagree that that would be a good FIRST gun. I don't think you can beat a shotgun for home defense, especially for a first time gun owner.

A shotgun is not a bad choice, but for most city dwellers a handgun is a better choice for defense. And since Raoul said that he was considering a gun in wake of the demise of the city's handgun ban, I'm presuming he's more interested in a handgun than a rifle or shotgun, both of which he should be able to buy now.

That's a good point!

Raoul, don't go any smaller than a 9mm. IMO, you have to be able to put a lot of rounds on target with a 9mm. I would recommend, for a first time owner, a Springfield XD or XD-M in either .40 or .45 caliber.

The .45 is the best manslaying handgun round in the history of the world, evar.

When I get a gun, I will quite probably want to have one that I can carry with me. That would seem to rule out longguns.

So it's more a question for me among handguns if I want to go revolver or semi-auto, and if there are brands to seek out or brands to definitely avoid.

At the same time I probably will be starting a family around that time, and want to make sure that my gun ownership doesn't backfire, so to speak.

How are you going to carry it with you? Even if they allow ownership, you're still dealing with a state carrying on your person is illegal in.

My 2 cents.

....well, more like my observation.

If you go to a gun board, or to a gun range, and start asking for expert advice on a first time handgun for range/self defense, the most common answer you're going to get is a .357 revolver of some kind...probably a Smith.

The argument is that double action revolvers are more reliable and simple to use than auto-loaders....and you really can't argue against that....because they are. Additionally, you can shoot cheaper .38 special ammo out of a .357 gun, so it doesn't cost as much to practice at the range. Of course, .38 special is nothing to sneeze at, so you could use it as your defensive ammo as well if you feel more comfortable with it for what ever reason....but having said that, get the .357 revolver anyway because at least you have a choice. You can't shoot .357 ammo out of a .38 special chambered gun.

At any rate, that is the "all things being equal, no other consideration, one gun catch all" best first time handgun champion.

Now for my own opinion. Go to a range that rents handguns, try different types out, and see which one you like best.

I would advise getting a .357 revolver. They are very reliable and easy to use. Your brain tends to turn to jello when you pull a gun (since you're about to use it for real) and the less to think about, the better!

Sorry but I disagree about a 9 mil - they just don't have the juice to kill large humans efficiently..and I doubt that Girl Scouts will be your target.

Every week people get shot with 9 mils in my town. Maybe 25 percent die, if that. If you need a gun to defend your life, why take that chance?

A .357 or a .45 has a much higher "one shot" kill ratio.
If you don't want to kill someone (just take the fight out of them...maybe)
then by all means, take your chances with a 9 mil or similiar round.

Remember, through practice your accuracy shooting targets may be great....but accuracy goes to hell when your whole body is shaking, which it might (especially your knees - they have a mind of their own!)

So a sloppy shot with a 9 mil won't do as much as a sloppy shot with a .357 or even a .44 Mag.

That's the reality. Some people freeze up and can't even get off a second shot. Stopping power means everything in this case. Just my 2 cents.

I see the problem here. You actually want 2 guns. A shotgun is the best thing for home defense. Unfortunately, it's not so good for having fun at the range. For that, you want a handgun and preferably something that can also serve as a carry weapon and a home defense weapon. Definitely go with an automatic. A lot of people like to clearly state that such and such gun is good for beginners while such and such gun is not so good for beginners. I don't really subscribe to that. You should research the hell out of this option and pick the gun that YOU like. You won't be happy if you get something else because someone convinced you it was more sensible.

Go to a gun store and get one of the employees to give you a complete rundown on anything that catches your eye. Remember that the people who work there are true enthusiasts and they would love to tell you everything about their hobby. But also remember that even "professionals" have their favorites and they can be biased. In the end you have to get the gun that you really want to have.

It's fashionable to deride the 9mm, but, statistically, it isn't far off either the .357 Magnum or .45 ACP.

Looking at the most recent data I have for one-shot stops (a compilation of statistics continuing the work of lawman Evan Marshall, who investigated such things), I get the following ranges (I've discarded oddball high and low values from all figures):

9mm 78-91%
.357 Magnum 82-95%
.45 ACP 85-100%

(Humorously, one loading of the .45 ACP was a 104% one-shot stopper...apparently, a single bullet took out two targets in one of the cases involving it.)

These statistics involve ALL sorts of loads used in REAL WORLD circumstances. Clearly, the .45 and .357 are superior defense rounds (as one would expect simply from the physics involved), but the 9mm is not the "weak sister" some would make it out to be.

You shoot someone with a decent 9mm round, you've got around an 85% chance of ending the encounter with a single shot.

By all means, those who (1) can handle the bigger calibers, (2) feel they need the bigger calibers, and (3) don't mind the expense of the bigger calibers should invest accordingly.

I think a new shooter like Raoul would be well-served with a 9mm autopistol.

Yeah. When I look at those stats, I see failure, not success:
.45 15% failure.
.357 18% failure.
9mm 22% failure. Not what I'd want to bet my life on.

Yup. For a "one gun fits all" for a noob, I'd say get a .357. If money is not an issue a nice classic Smith or even a Colt Python would be nice. If you don't want to drop as much on a first gun, get a decent one to learn the basics on, and spend more money when you know this is your bag, Taurus makes some very nice revolvers at very reasonable prices. They've got some moderatly sized .357s and they've even got "The Judge", which can shoot Colt 45 or .410 shotgun shells which makes for a nifty weapon for a relative novice.

I always recommend NRA membership for any gun owner. You're probably not going to like much of what they say about Obama, Pelosi, etc in the political sections, but there is very neat stuff on guns and the history of guns and such, and resources about where you can shoot or take classes.

.45 or 10mm.

Don't let people sway you, Raoul. I know gun ranges rent guns, yes. But, I've never done it so I don't know how much it'd cost. Go, shoot everything you can afford to shoot, and do it multiple times until you start to get a handle on what fits you, what you like, and what you can shoot well.

We're all more than happy to offer advice, but if you buy the gun we want you to buy, you won't be happy. Buy the gun you want. After all, any reliable loaded gun of any caliber is better than a stern word.

Fits in a purse

We're usually not limited to a single shot.

But if you want the ultimate in one-shot stopability, then get a .500 S&W Magnum so you can eake out an extra 2-3%. Of course, you'll be blind and deaf if you have to fire it in your house in the dead of night...

Stopping power is a tradeoff with firepower. The bigger the bullets are, the fewer of them your gun will hold. Stopping power is also a tradeoff with weight and recoil.

Raoul: I think Elwood's advice is sound: try several things and see what you like and can shoot well. I'm simply advising you against getting too much gun. A .45 IS a better stopper than a 9mm, but if you shoot the 9mm better, then the 9's a better choice. Don't get the wrong gun just because of someone's misguided idea of what "a real man" shoots; get what YOU can shoot well.

What Elwood said.

Fuck, I knew he was a cool Liberal.

I'm assuming you'll be using a handgun. This will be helpful, assuming you shoot right-handed.

Shot placement trumps caliber every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I'm a good shot.

Raul, seriously though, for home defense you can't go wrong with a shotgun. There's a reason every cop car in America has a Remington 870 in their trunk.

I used to have an 870.....a classic design.

I like the 1100 semi-auto shotgun too!

870 has a much nastier sounding action.