If people want to talk about PC bullshit....

...then here it is.

http://heatst.com/culture-wars/star-trek-jokes-in-class-make-women-feel-unwelcome-says-university-of-washington-prof/

Apparently, Star Trek illustrates toxic male culture and undermines female development.

If people want to talk about PC bullshit, that's PC bullshit. Not standing up against racism, et al.

Off to bed.

So what, exactly, is "standing up against racism"? Bitching about "cultural appropriation"? "Vote Trump" written in chalk? or swastikas written in chalk?

'cause I kinda get that last one.

This is just stupid.

Original story including link to study:

http://qz.com/823162/a-new-study-sh...ake-women-feel-unwelcome-in-computer-science/

And the conclusion:

Culture change isn’t always easy, but it is always possible. The University of Washington’s computer science department has been working hard for the past decade to create a more inclusive culture for women. The department added art and nature posters throughout their building to make it more inviting. Women were appointed as teaching assistants in many courses. Professors sent personalized emails recognizing women who received high grades in introductory courses. These emails defined success as getting good grades, rather than whether one plays video games or knows science fiction references.

The efforts have paid off. Last year, the proportion of undergraduate computer science degrees going to women at the University of Washington, 32%, was higher than any other public flagship university in the country. The gender gap began to close once women could learn computer science in a culture that signaled they belonged.

It’s time we take the pressure off women to change themselves to fit within masculine cultures. Instead, the pressure should be on society to make computer science a field in which all students feel equally welcome.

If it's 'stupid' but it works, is it stupid?

Given that most Star Trek fans are male I never understood the desire of writers and producers to "reach out" to women

It's stupid to blame Star Trek and sci-fi culture.

They merely lowered the standards so that a CS degree amounts to garbage. Real programmers will invariably be those that excel at mathematics/logic, i.e., males.

Did you read the link I posted?

If nerd culture is proven to turn women off from computer science, how is it stupid to blame nerd culture for turning women off from science?

Did you use stupid when you really meant 'the conclusions make me uncomfortable'.

No, I just don't blame Star Trek, I think the show made an effort to include others. Nerd culture is stupid, what do you want?

Yeah, but how do we address it? The article seems to imply that we do things to attenuate the affects of the "geek culture" as opposed to putting a stop to it.

I can't speak for Chup, but I think he was insinuating that it's PC bullshit to blame Star Trek. If true, I agree.

It's not. You have no idea what you are talking about. This topic exists beyond your domain of discourse.

I don't think the plan is to 'fix' nerd culture so much as to make sure it doesn't dominate computer science courses.

Your arrogance is disappointing, @Ancalagon

There are plenty of women who are good at those things, but who don't care for the environment. Just like there are men who are good at administrative assistant duties but who feel uncomfortable in what is traditionally a female role. As much as life should be a meritocracy, people want what they want.

You don't need nerd culture to dominate programming courses, but you do need a whole lot of binary math and logic.

Of course by "computer science" they probably mean teaching Photoshop and Java, not digital logic circuits, microcode, assembly, LISP, and whatnot.

Maybe the problem is we teach girls that being geeky is not cool, and do not allow them to join the obviously invisible women who love star trek and role-playing. Dressing it up in brand names because the only girls the public sees are the ones who wear prosper fashion seems like infecting yet another area with vapid commercialism without really addressing the underlying problem of why we tell young girls they are only girls if they get into the acceptable gender roles.

People like to talk about how education is the great equalizer, but when have data and evidence that our educational system discourages half the population from certain fields, they get all defensive.

Nerd culture is in no way an integral part of computer sciences. Toning it down will in no way diminish the education of computer science grads. But look at the collective freakout to the study.

Guess some nerds don't actually like data.

Well, how do you make it "not dominate?" Tell guys they can't wear "I Grok Spock" shirts? Make them quit making Monty Python references? Keep them from talking about the latest superhero movie?

I guess I come from another viewpoint: if encountering a nerd is enough to make a woman not want to pursue computer science, she probably shouldn't pursue it. She obviously has no passion for the subject and little tolerance for popular culture if she is defeated so easily. For fields that often require collaboration and assimilation into an established company culture--as computer science does--she's clearly ill-equipped.

I suppose computer engineering would attract more women if it had better looking guys. Should we take handsomeness into account when accepting male CS students. Offer a full scholarship in computer engineering to any guy with sixpack abs? Why not? That would probably work, right?

But that would be silly. Just like this is silly.

Why should a culture that is palatable and, likely, enjoyable to the majority of students that are there, have to be changed simply to make it more appealing to a few? Why don't the few receive the burden of adapting? That requires no "management" of the local culture.

Someone should conduct a study on this subject and publish the results.

Oh. wait.

I think a lot more men would go into nursing if the female nursing students would lick their balls. We have to change their culture.

Thank you for keeping it brief. Nor being snarky, but this hits on the issue right on.

case in point.

Try moving into your own own place and you'll get more women who will at least give you a pity hand job.

It works to get them to study in that field, but what happens when they get the job and all their girlfriends don't understand them anymore because now they keep up with technology and do not have time to correlate what yoga studio is going to impress their friends enough?

It wasn't that brief, but yeah.

It's packaging.

The same reason so many find The Donald so unpalatable. You stop right at the bombast and egomania and never get to whether there's merit to his policies.

My instincts are the same as yours - if there are two competitors and one gets hung up on (what I called) packaging, or appearances, or some mushy 'comfort zone' and the other is immune or able to overcome their discomfort (or happen to naturally fit into the "idiom" (to quote MP)), the flexible one will thrive while the rival drops behind.

In a very loose sense, it can be analogized to Wf. You can coddle to make this place more accessible. Or you can accept that it's like high school, with cliques and posses group bullying etc. Not everyone is suited to participating, and one could curry favor even passively by saying "like" and sycophanting and bootlicking the popular majority (lately leftist and statist). A castrated WF that is soft and accessible to thin skinned would not be the same place.

That's just it. Collaboration and assimilation happens more easily when everyone is on the same page and have some common interests.

Look stint this way: if you're a male nursing student, you're not gonna be much into discussing Scandal or whatever big soap opera or some of the man drama we ladies have. It may make getting to know the ladies that much harder. We're social creatures and when there's a bonding during learning, it makes it that much better for everyone.

Computer science is a product of nerd culture. A culture you appear to have no sensitivity for. You propose destroying that culture for its technology? That sounds like a willful violation of the prime directive.