Is ADHD a bullshit illness?

So to inject some fucking reality into this abortion of a thread.

I have ADHD myself, I was diagnosed a year ago at the age of 24 after I noticed that I had issues with attention as compared to my peers. I'd always had trouble paying attention in classes, but up until college I was able to just brute force the material with intellect. I went to my doctor, stating that I had problems keeping attention, and he did an exam to rule out other factors like thyroid, fatigue, etc. After ruling out other factors, I was sent to a psychologist, and was evaluated utilizing a set of questions about my past and current life. A diagnosis of ADHD, predominantly inattentive was made, and I began taking ritalin.

However, like everyone else, I thought ADHD was an overdone diagnosis, so I went to a neuropsychologist specializing in brain assessment. I underwent a 6 hour evaluation of my cognitive abilities, testing IQ, working memory, executive function, and more sans medication. The results were that I had an above average IQ of 131, placing me in approximately the 98th percentile, however my processing speed placed me in the 55th percentile. What this meant was that I am exceptionally intelligent, however I am unable to quickly process information. To have such a high IQ and low processing speed is very rare, and generally only occurs in individuals with ADHD. Both psychologists were surprised that I had gone this long without a diagnosis, as most individuals coming in as adults are merely trying to score pills.

Shortly thereafter I found out that ADHD tends to run in families, with a 25% probability that individuals who have it will have someone else in their family with it. I requested that my mother get my sister tested as well, and she was also found to have it. Since then her grades have improved from barely passing to A's and B's.

As to your question of whether it's a bullshit illness, it's not. Whether it's a symptom of something else yet unknown is a valid question, but it is an illness nonetheless. Individuals with ADHD have structural differences in the frontal lobe of the brain, the area responsible for short term memory, planning, decision making, motivation, and paying attention. This area contains the highest concentration of dopamine-sensitive neurons, and in individuals with ADHD, this area is smaller. This is why medications like adderall and ritalin are effective at treatment, they increase the levels of dopamine in the brain.

The structural differences are also why individuals with ADHD are typically seen as lazy, the disorder affects the things we associate with successful people, like motivation and planning and decision making. Individuals with ADHD aren't lazy, they're just poor at putting their ideas into action, and poor at completing tasks that they can't easily establish with a reward. They may have many great ideas or talents, but get caught up on the finer points of execution.

In my personal experience, the difference between medicated v. unmedicated is like night and day. I'm more motivated, able to plan more effectively, understand complex instructions faster, and just manage my daily shit better. I can't speak to your coworker, but I suspect if he's unwilling to see a psychologist/psychiatrist than he might be trying to hide behind the illness.

So, basically, people with ADHD are, in fact, lazy -- but their laziness is a neurological condition. Just, y'know, to cut through Defender's BS rationalization. So no, it's not a bullshit disease, but it's a disease one of the symptoms of which is bullshitting.

Eh, I disagree with the idea that ADHD ceases to be a reason for performances once it's been professionally diagnosed. Meds alone don't fix the problem, they just reduce the severity. It takes therapy to undo years of coping mechanisms and put good practices into place.

It can also take some time to find the correct medication or dosage to effectively treat the symptoms. For example, I was on Ritalin for 3 months with mind splitting headaches. My physician insisted it was a blood pressure issue, but after a couple months of blood pressure meds my blood pressure was now below normal and I was still experiencing headaches. I was then put on Strattera, which gave me crippling anxiety and fatigue. I was then referred to a psychiatrist, who put me on adderall, but it took nearly 5 months to find the correct dosage. Even after finding the correct dosage it wasn't over, as a shortage of generic adderall instant release forced me to switch to the extended release, which gave me insomnia for almost a month.

So no, I don't buy the idea that just because someone is an adult automatically disqualifies ADHD for being a reason for poor performance. Like any other mental illness, there are extenuating circumstances aside from whether they are on medication or not, life is not black and white. I'm glad things worked out so quickly for your daughter, but it doesn't work out that way for everyone.

No, not really. Many people with ADHD are hard workers, myself included, we are just motivated differently. Whereas most people are happy with familiarity and stability in their employment, individuals with ADHD often require novelty or challenge to stay engaged. Consequently it makes them well-suited for high stress adaptive environments, creative endeavours like acting and art, and entrepreneurship. As a matter of fact, individuals with ADHD are 300% more likely to start their own company, some famous entrepreneurs with ADHD are: Sir Richard Branson (founder of Virgin), Paul Orfalea (founder of Kinko's), David Neeleman (founder of JetBlue Airways).

So no, we're not lazy.

Two beers and I am more relaxed and can think things through better and figure things out quicker. One other thing, when I was given the pain meds for my knee after surgery, most people say it relaxes them and makes them sleepy. That was not the case for me. I would take one of those pills and my mind would absolutely race. I filled a notebook full of designs for things, many of which I ended up creating. One of them was the solar collector on my roof made from materials I already had. It was a pretty incredible thing.

Or criticizing a place where you've never visited? Oh where have I heard that lately?

Negative. A good counselor can do wonders for people who respond to face-to-face interaction. Just because you can't prescribe medication doesn't mean that much. My psychiatrist (great guy) doesn't really do anything but ask me if I'm getting any better (or not getting worse) on my current medication. If I also was a "talker" then he or a psychologist (can't prescribe medication) or counselors would be able to help me also. Everyone involved in mental health is important IMO.

We folks with ADHD tend to have a bit more Empathy.

I don't know what I have, but several doctors concur that I have some serious problems. I sure couldn't join the military (assuming I was young again) with my current mental state, but once you are in....they don't care what meds you are on, as long as it doesn't interfere with your functioning too much.
And if you're a combat vet, it's assumed that you will be on something eventually so there is no stigma about mental health issues, and that's a good thing IMO.

Concerta is just an extended release version of Ritalin, but I get the splitting headaches regardless of whether it's the instant or extended release formula. As for Vyvanse, I haven't tried it, but since it's a longer acting amphetamine I suspect I'd face similar problems to Adderall XR.

Nope, not bullshit. Well, ADD isn't anyway. Hyperactivity? Yeah, that's kids being kids. But as for ADD, it's a dopamine insensitivity that basically results in the inability to handle being bored (under-stimulated - same thing). This is basically why you give stimulants to those diagnosed, instead of sedatives - the stimulant makes up for the fact that whatever you're doing is terrifically boring. Brains are built to sense things, to be stimulated. They crave stimulation.

But the ability to tolerate being bored is an evolutionary advantage. If you can tolerate being bored, you've got a shot at out-waiting the lion just outside your hole-in-the-rock of a cave (bear in mind, this applies primarily to our smaller pre-primate ancestors), and are less likely to try to make a break for it due to under-stimulation (and thus get eaten).

There's a tradeoff, of course - if you're chronically under-stimulated, your brain doesn't have the input to do cool shit like coming up with the next great idea that will change the world. TLDR: Synthesis is impossible without input, or if input is ignored.

Unfortunately at some point in the distant past (probably around the rise of agriculture - what's more boring that waiting for plants to grow), mankind established a society that all but requires people's brains to be in bored mode most of the time, and in recent decades (say, since the industrial revolution, but esp. more recently) the trend towards an always-bored population has been accelerating. Ritalin is no substitute for real sensory input. Yes, it's great for getting people to do terrifically boring work without complaint, but is that really what we want?

frontline, I would guess your daughter's case is a complete, rather than partial, dopamine insensitivity - nothing is interesting enough for her.

If anything, that point is a lament to the fact that we're no longer in a hazardous environment, most of us. In the scenario you describe, the ADHD kid did and, moreover, should have been eaten, so that the next generation of humans would not have that same vulnerability.

Instead, we've isolated our species from natural predation, and so the actormike, the tasvir and the enlisted person survive to adulthood and plague us all.

Now, listen here. I'm being charitable. I'm being understanding. But if you can't trudge through the paperwork like everyone else -- you like it or lump it -- that's lazy.

I'm not calling it a character flaw here, because there's a neurochemical reason for it, not just an excuse -- but it is what it is. It's laziness.

What you can accomplish despite it doesn't change it, ya dig? What the source of it is, also doesn't change it.

ADHD is neurochemical-based laziness. Flaky-ness. Whatever. But it is what it is. You're only going to lose sympathy by calling it anything other than what it is. So take a break. Take a deep breath. And stop. We've figured out the basics. They're not flattering ot you -- okay, well, deal. Nobody's judging. Nobody's saying you're a bad person. We're just getting a handle on what it is you're dealing with, and one way to describe it as chemically-mandated slacking. Let us have some way to understand it -- you don't get to make a huge mystical mystery out of it. 'kay?

It does, and in my gene pool. I named the gene for a stem of the family tree where the history of behaviors are apparent to be parallel without even realizing it until later in life. Nobody I knew of had a name for it and the psycologists I saw as a kid all came back with the same "nothing wrong with this kid" from first to last.
I don't use it as an excuse and it's a battle to stay on track with some of my projects and general function. It's work.
Not much for the meds though I like frontline had to come to grips with my kids who surprise surprise have similar tendencies. We fought it for years and finally I gave in on the meds for them, one it helped, the other not so much.

It's real, scoff as you will.

I've spent decades working through what has only recently been given a name and I'm here to tell you it's a handful sometimes.

The irony of you stating that I'm a chemically mandated slacker, on a board whose very existence is owed in part to several years of my hard work and effort well before any diagnosis, is not lost on me.

You're arguing that it's a bad thing people aren't eaten by lions anymore. Why should anyone take you seriously?

You haven't proven me wrong on anything so far....that's the fault in your so called "calling out".

And you can complain about semantics all you want, as a mental health professional you of all people should know that there is a world of difference between speculation, definitive statements and conclusions, and actual diagnosis.

Still waiting for you to tell me what I have gotten wrong.....

To my knowledge (coud be wrong) he does not take medication. Nobody has seen him take any. That's one of the reasons I would curious to get more information and opinion on it.

In an age of overpopulation I suppose there is some argument that survival of the fittest is becoming less and less with the advent of ways to increase the life chances of those who otherwise would not have survived, say, 100 years ago.

But that's a whole other argument.

Fuck evolution! I wanna live!!

Trouble is that a lot of people are cautious around here that if we start asking for proof he'll claim he's being victimised.

Yeah, this thread is about me. I knew it.

Assuming you're being serious and this isn't trolling Mr. Snitchers then he can bitch all he wants. If he wants to claim X then he has to provide the documentation he's got it.

And you all need to stop being scared little bitches about it and look him straight in the eyes and say "Bring in the documentation proving you've got it."

Your behavior in being cautious is only feeding into his behavior.

The whole evolutionary angle is very interesting, although evolutionary psychology is fraught with problems and conjecture. Still it's fun to think about.

Sometimes I wonder if I have some sort of reverse ADD. I suppose in some bizarro world there would be a medical diagnosis for people who can concentrate super intensely. I've always been able to hyperfocus on one thing, person, session, for hours. I suppose it's why I enjoy my job which requires me to fully focused on one person at a time. Probably, why I teach meditation as well.

The truth is we're all wired differently, and thank goodness there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done in this world. If you're wiring isn't working for you, I see no reason why you shouldn't look to science for help.

What? Get a life mate.

No, I've already made it clear that this is not about Mr. Ego, despite how desperate he seems to want it to be.

As for what you say, the reason we are a little cautious is because there are laws in England regarding discrimination over mental illness. For instance, some who has long term depression can't be discriminated against if it were know that he suffered before he was employed since it is considered to be a recognised disability. There is concern that this situation is analogous since he (to my knowledge) declared it from the start.

Oh, I don't mean bored in a psychological sense, I mean in a physiological sense, like in sensory deprivation. Brains sense and think. Deprive them of sense, and they need a coping mechanism. Dopamine is that coping mechanism. Not a stimulant, but it reduces the brain's need for input by reducing its activity. But introduce a resistance to dopamine reuptake, and the brain is literally unable to handle being in the sense-deprived state.

As for the wiring being different, no question that the most severe forms of ADD ought to be treated - a bit of dopamine sensitivity is important. But I think it's also worth looking at what in society should be changed - not because some people have ADD, but so everyone's brains can get out of the dopamine-flooded, function-impaired state.

a real disorder, but diagnosed waaaaaay too often in young boys, IMHO. they're SUPPOSED to be rowdy and loud, and those shouldn't be skewed and misrepresented as an inability to focus just so parents will have an easier time getting their kids to be good, obedient little drones. i'm all for medicating the ones that truly need help, but i really think that quite a few of those kids would be better served by allowing them time each day to just be boys.