Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

While all of that is true, it doesn't mean that it isn't the primary motivation of religious extremists, who fucking TELL YOU that is their motivation. That Hadith is explicitly incitement to genocide.

You saying it is fiction doesn't change their point of view one bit.

This is the opening preface of the Hamas Charter:
In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate "You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture(2) had believed, it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-doers. They will not harm you save a trifling hurt, and if they fight against you they will turn and flee. And afterward they will not be helped. Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save [where they grasp] a rope from Allah and a rope from man.(3) They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the Prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress." Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111.(4) "Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors." The Imam and Martyr Hassan al-Banna(5) May Allah Pity his Soul "The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others." Sheikh Amjad Al-zahawi May Allah Pity his Soul In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate

Hamas is a religious organization. Religion is the predominant fact of life in Palestine as it is in much of the middle eastern world. Of the 6 theocracies, 5 of them are Islamic. Of the religious republics, 47 out of 47 are Islamic. Germany isn't the Christendom Federal Republic of Germany.

Um.... yeah.... That was kind of my point.

But not limited to Islam.

Oh, and the latest terror attack, the one in Sweden. Here's what the assassin posted on social media: "I am a fighter for Allah. We live for our religion, and we die for our religion. Your brother took revenge in the name of Muslims. I have killed 2 Swedes so far”.

Yeah, why would anyone think that religion doesn't motivate this.

When they source the one Hadith in the collection of Islamic writings that explicitly calls for Muslims to kill Jews, they fucking mean it.

That doesn't mean there aren't other sayings that are more peaceful, but those saying aren't in their charter. This one about the genocide of the Jews is. Yes, that has profound meaning.

Sorry, Rick's point is that the religion doesn't matter because regardless of how often they say it's what motivates them it isn't true. It isn't true, but that doesn't mean they don't think it is and it motivates them.

And I oppose religious fundamentalism everywhere and honestly religion in general is something I'd love to see fade away, the Islamic world is far more fundamentalist than anything we see in the West. The christofascists aspire to be what the Clerics of Iran and Hamas and the Taliban already are.

Sigh. Let's break it down, once and once only. Precision in language is clearly not your strong point.

"Before the end times, the Muslims must massacre the Jews" is already a vast over-simplification. But let's go with it. It's not a nice thing to say, but it is an eschatological statement about potentially distant events which may or may not be relevant to current affairs.
Your distortion - "the murder of everyone in Israel" - removes the eschatological context and foregrounds the current political situation, removing the obvious theological wiggle-room and presenting it as a policy statement.

Many Christians suggest that 99% of the human race are destined for hellfire. That is not every nice either, but the people who believe it can maintain it as a formal belief while living normal lives and treating everyone very well. Not a perfect analogy, lest you start bitching about it - but illustrative about how you are carelessly lunging for the worst possible prism through which to view this. And it's hard to avoid the conclusion that you do so as part of an effort to present recent Israeli actions as more reasonable than they are.

Now, as I've pointed out before and as I should have realised on this occasion, you have a track record of this kind of shoddy and hysterical misrepresentation, particularly when you're dealing with a subject that you dislike - and when confronted you just start slinging mud. I note that you've already done it in a further post (Rick's point is that the religion doesn't matter - no, that's not my point.) So that's the last post I'll make about it.

Sigh. Rick, what is a political charter?

Here, I'll help: 'a written constitution or description of an organization's functions."

So in this case, yes, it very much is a policy statement.

This 'description of an organization's function' is explicitly a call to genocide jews, framed in religious fundamentalism, which also says Israel must be destroyed, no peace is possible, and that it is the calling of every Muslim to die for Allah. It says all of these things, and yes, that provides context for why they included the passage that says that Muslims must proactively murder Jews before Judgment Day can come.

And in Islam Judgment Day is necessary before Jannah, Heaven, can be reached. It is literally one of the six articles of faith one must believe for other Muslims to consider you a Muslim.

Does it say anywhere that Jesus tells you that you should kill them before you can get to heaven? Maybe, just maybe, one of these religions has far more dehumanizing tenets than the other.

Or I just understand it and you are blinded by ideology.

Once again Rick, if you were at the Peace Festival on Oct 7th, Hamas wouldn't have cared about your social positions. They'd simply have slaughtered you for being there, or taken you captive to be used as a human shield.

And yes, Rick, you are defending Hamas, because you keep lying about what is in their charter. When it's obvious that it's in their charter, they mean it, they've acted on it, and they brag about deceiving people that it isn't true so they can further their goal of killing Jews.

A disgusting tweet from a man currently involved in killing children at the rate of one every 15 minutes for the last week.

It's amazing how Rick has no problem telling everyone what Israeli government is really up to and what their real motives are based on his own observations of their actions, but if anyone tries to apply the same logic to Hamas he demands written proof in triplicate.

When will you bullies stop slandering the murderous terrorist organization?

500 killed in a no-warning attack on a hospital...

Which hospital?

Where in Gaza is the hospital located?

Are you sure no warning was given, since you don't seem to have too many details you're willing to share?

How come you can post lazy shit like this while demanding other people provide you multiple eyewitness accounts of decapitated Israeli babies?

IDF says they are investigating, but no IDF air strikes were in the region, and Hamas had just launched a heavy rocket barrage from Gaza into Israel from that area.

Lots of speculation it was Hamas, whether intentionally or accidently.

Once again, hard to know for sure right now. Could be either side.

Every news source in the world is running with this. You'd best think up some more excuses for them rather than getting pedantic with me.

Coward.

Hey, I know! Maybe it's okay for them to bomb hospitals if they claim they did give a warning?!! Something something Hamas made us do it!

Any news coming out of that region right now needs to be viewed with healthy skepticism, even from reputable sources.

Remember that evacuation convoy that was blown up by IDF artillery?

Oh, wait...

But you said there was no warning, but now you don't seem to care if there was a warning or not...

Anyway, which hospital?

And where in Gaza is the hospital located?

In fairness to Wordforge's favourite anti-semite, it's the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza.

CNN amongst others are reporting on it, but Palestinian officials are putting the preliminary death toll between 200 - 300, not 500.

And you need to be aware of who is saying what. Everyone knows the IDF spokesman is pro-Israel.

But the Minister of Health in Gaza is a cabinet level official in the Hamas government... uncritically taking what that group says is just as problematic.

Google says the hospital is in Gaza city, which to my untrained eyes appears to be in the North.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142347

Google also turned up this UN statement from three days ago about the IDF warning 22 hospitals in the north to evacuate. I couldn't find a list of the hospitals, though.

But the IDF also warned Gazans to evacuate the north entirely a few days ago.

So I'm not necessarily sure about this "no warning" thing. Might actually be ample warning.

Not that Rick cares, and not that anything happening in this thread makes a difference in the end. I just felt like pushing back on the narrative he's pushing.

Ample warning? That's outrageous. But whatever. I'm much too angry to post about this any more this evening. I'll leave you lot to your rationalisations.

And yet you don't seem in any rush to dispute it.

IDF is now saying their intelligence indicates as Hamas fired large numbers of rockets from near the impacted hospital one of them veered off target and struck the hospital.

The failure rate on Hamas missiles is on the order of 40%, so while not proof yet, it has some credibility.

Of course, they could be lying. I think we'll have to wait for an independent source to verify. Each side is blaming the other.

It's a tragedy either way, and a good reminder what happens when you start a shooting war.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...had-rocket-launch-caused-gaza-hospital-blast/

Both sides are so believable.

https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1714390274900734049?

Conclusion:

A missile launched by a Palestinian group exploded mid-air (Reason unknown) and one piece fell on the hospital causing an explosion.

The geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive.

What do people think Israel's response should have been here? Were they supposed to accept the initial Hamas attacks as part of the cost of occupying land other people want?

Whatever happened to…an explosion at a Gaza hospital has killed an unknown number of civilians. This story is developing and we will update when additional details are known.

Many outlets rushed to report the Palestinian authorities’ rather skewed interpretation of the event before the facts were even known.

Perhaps there is no "ample" warning for a hospital in this situation. You can't just cart the preemies and elderly cancer patients on ventilators across town to the next hospital.

https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1714337523592208695?t=mt1Tsqc8NaqvB6Jtw-aIEw&s=19

Video from northern Gaza appears to show a HAMAS rocket failing midflight and debris falling on the hospital where it set off secondary explosions (conflicting reports on whether illegally stored munitions or just generator fuel and/or oxygen).

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1714383923881373908

This is going down the same old path.

All muslims deserve to die because their holy book is evil is such a stupid point. I am fine with Isreal needs to secure their country from terrorists who are plotting to destroy the country. That is a specific group of people which are involved in illegal terrorism and killing.

This idea from the anti-Islamic racists that all muslims need to die because they believe in the Koran and it said something about killing, or their leader was a child molester, or they are all animal;s is just the same old right wing crap. If that is your real belief and not some excuse to hate muslims, then you need to go down the road and kill every christian and jew also. Don't worry about the muslims because you have neighbors who deserve to die because their book tells them rape, murder, slavery, and all sorts of other crimes need to be done in the name of god.

So @Demiurge is not going to do that? I thought this was the same old I want to kill all muslims hypocrisy because I do not give a fuck what any abrahamic text says, and we all know most of the abrahamic religion practitioners leave out the kill in the name of god crap.

Hamas made a huge crime, and anyone who participated and covered up for them is guilty. Isreal has to stop the violence. They are the police and governance of that country. This is not a crime of the Islamic faith, this is blowing people up, raping, plundering, shooting, and almost every violation of the law there is. Hamas is criminals, not because they are muslim, but because of their actions. If you do not want to side with a terrorist gang then get the fuck out of the way. If you don't get out then you want to be there.

Seriously, If the duh goes all in for dumb furor Trump or Desantis, I am either out of here , or in the fucking warzone. I would hope Biden would destroy the area and every Trump or desantis loving traitor here, but I am not expecting them to hold their fire for long. If any Trump or Desantis goon holds me hostage so they can kill more americans, then shoot a missile up their asses and I will sort it out with them in hell. Do not let them take other lives because of me.