Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

The left created this problem. This is the result of 20 years of indoctrination from the left. Next up is cultural Marxism. Congratulations, people like you were complicit in this. This is the result of teaching everyone to hate America.

Okay, little buddy. People like you are the ones who hate America. Unless, of course, you mean the right's twisted, perverted, hateful America. That one you'll happily vote for next year...in the name of Donald J. Trump.

Wait, pretending your fairy tale is true for the sake of argument; Fox has been around those same exact 20 years, and they brag about being the most watched news network.
So are liberals morons who can't find their hands in front of their faces, or insidious geniuses that brainwash the masses in spite of everyone watching Fox?

Telling people that garbage is yucky and not to be eaten doesn't teach them to hate the trash man and landfills.
Greed is bad, slavery is bad, and caused by greed.
If pointing these things out is "hating America" then conservatives are telling on themselves what they think America is or should be about.
Jackass.

Hamas promises to kill all the hostages unless their demands are met.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-says-no-hostage-leave-170503934.html

Lovely.

Hamas isn't the Resistance, as they describe themselves. They're terrorists. We can talk about colonizers and the colonized, and if people want to think Palestine is occupied territory that's fine. But I hope no one forgets Hamas is a collection of thugs. A legitimate resistance doesn't kidnap civilians for ransom. A legitimate resistance doesn't glorify and commit murder against civilians. These people are evil and would kill any one of us if it benefited their cause. I know it's easy to paint Israel as the Big Bad and the Palestinians as plucky, oppressed underdogs, but that doesn't include Hamas. I hope intelligent people don't think they're included in that description, anyway.

Remember when the rebellion in Star Wars gang raped women until their pelvises were crushed?
Yep, cuz that's what good guys do.
Heroes, heroes, heroes.
Moral, moral, moral.
Yep.

Many of the people that think Israelis are "colonizers" absolutely consider Hamas part of a legitimate resistance, because they believe you can never go too far trying to drive out colonizers. They were much louder about it immediately after October 7th. "Violence works, how do you think they pushed the French out of Algeria" and such.

Thankfully not here; unless I'm mistaken, everybody here has condemned Hamas' actions on 10/7--even if they've stopped short of saying the organization should be utterly ground into dust. There probably are a good many Westerners who support Hamas, though, which is just ridiculously ironic. Hamas certainly doesn't support them, beyond their capacity as useful idiots.

Bottom line is, if you engage in passive resistance against an occupying force--or even active resistance against purely military targets--you can at least make a case for the moral high ground. Once you do what Hamas did, you're scum. Add that to Hamas being an outgrowth of the odious Muslim Brotherhood, and it's obvious these aren't the good guys. At all. Ever.

Ricky and Amaris have some sense of self preservation that stops them from fully taking the mask off here, but they've both argued that everything is legitimate if your goal is preventing genocide, and I'm pretty sure they consider the status quo on October 6th to be genocide, because everything is genocide when the Jews do it.

Rick posted this just yesterday:

Please quote the post where I said that genocide was taking place in Gaza prior to the current Israeli campaign.

I'm guessing he means you think a general Palestinian genocide was taking place prior to 10/7 due to Israeli policy, not specifically in Gaza.

I know what he means. He is lying.

"Show where I said that" is some cowardly Federal Farmer-level bullshit. Hiding behind weasel words is just sad. For the record:

Do you believe genocide was occuring in Gaza and the West Bank on October 6th?

If you believe Apartheid and/or an illegal occupation was occuring on October 6th, of sufficient severity that "all states have a moral responsibility to use whatever means are at their disposal to end it?"

Do you know what the ark of the covenant is? It is a fucking weapon of genocide given to the jews by god. This is right in their storybook. One of the stories told to their little kids is about how god loved them so much he gave them a weapon of divine power to kill everyone who stood in their way. This is not something you could close your eyes from and avoid. It didn't just kill Nazis. It killed all non-jews and was part of the reasons why those who believe in the literal interpretation of the torah believe they are god's people and one day he will come back to kill all of us who oppose the jews.

If the jews can come up with the ark and wipe out all the people who are not jews in Isreal, I might consider that proof their god really wants them to be the only ones. However, until we find that particular thing all you have is a book with as much truth in it as harry potter. If god wants something done, then god gets to bloody his hands. If you do it yourself you are just a genocidal human.

So before we get into how evil @Amaris and @RickDeckard are, at least they are not basing their world view on a book that justifies Jewish Genocide of everyone else.

In this case I would say there is an important other side to this equation. There is a lot of kill all jews on the other side of the equation. That does not mean we wipe out all muslims or palestinians, but that we police the genocidal terrorists when they act upon their prejudice. The ideas of kill all the other side are as awful for the jews as they are for the muslim community. It does noit lead anywhere but the continued war.

I want palestine to be protected from Isreali torture and genocide. I want them to have food, electrcity, and a chance for a life that is about positive things and not killing others. That involves their self sufficiency and protection of their boirders. TRhat involves removing Isreal from their policing and keeping Isreal from limiting their opportunities to survive, profit, and enjoy life. It does not mean we just let them go about things because clearly we need to stop them from engaging in wars with Isreal based on hate. OTOH we can no longer let Isreali genocide continue, and Isreal needs to have their ability to harm palestine and other states severely monitored and punished to immediately stop their anti-Islam and arabic genocidal hate.

Back in the day we did stop a lot of agression between Japan, China, and Korea. There was some very bloody history there and the prejudice exists to this day. We had to allow the Japanese to have a defense force capable of protecting their borders, while not allowing them to engage in foreign hostilities based on very real prejudices towards other asian countries. Even after all these years there are still some major hatreds between the people of these countries. Wer still have some of these prejudices in europe after generations of an end to a lot of the wars that once went on between these countries.

It is not that it is impossible, but that the governments have to be prevented from waging war and having control of their enemy's economies and livelihood. That simply is not the case in Palestine when Palestine is not recognized as it's own thing based on Isreali influence. That Isreali influence is directly associated with the US and their power within the world. We need to stop using Isreal as our proxy for destabilization in the middle east, and our efforts of colonization. Part of the reason why Isreal is a colonizer is because it is a proxy colonizer for the US. The US made the state of Isreal to colonize for it, and it is our responsibility to reign it in and destroy those intentions.

This is why the US needs to immediately put strings on all Isreali support that keep it as a defense force, and resatrict any offensive it takes. If Isreal does not like that then Isreal can defend themselves. I doubt their level of living will last very long without US protection. They might not be destroyed, but they are going to be living in a truly war torn destroyed country before long without the US backing them.

See, that's the thing. Of course the bigots will attack Jewish people under the guise of being anti-Israel, but bigots take every opportunity to do that to every oppressed group. It's that the people here arguing such a case is ignoring the actual murder of Palestinian children in the process, and regard criticism of Israel as antisemitism, and it's not.

Israel as a state is up for debate, and there is a real history of Israel outright mass murdering Palestinians, along with their general oppression of them. The US, as it always does, pretends context doesn't exist, just like it did when 9/11 happened. George W. "They hate us for our freedoms" Bush not letting on the fact that the US is responsible for so much bloodshed around the world, and not for the better, but for the benefit of US corporations, that the US population never stopped to think "did we cause this somehow?"

The US isn't going to pull strings on Israel for a while yet. It's finally doing it in Ukraine, as I said it would by the way, and Zelensky will take the fall for that, too, as public opinion turns against him. The US has used that play many times in the past: see Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, et. al., and it will keep doing it as long as people have short memories and a total lack of comprehension on how the US engages in foreign policy with nations that too many people, especially Americans, see as throwaway countries where no one 'important' lives.

It's why you see so many people immediately believe the atrocity propaganda that Israel produces, and the US media allowed to continue for so long, because of course Palestinians are evil, backwards, bigoted people who can't possibly be civilized. We did the same thing to black people when they fought for their freedom. We did it to the Chinese, the Irish, and we'll keep doing it as long as it benefits us, and people will continue to fall for it because it's much easier than dealing with the truth that the US is an instigator, and builds its wealth and power off of the beaten, abused, and exploited bodies of billions.

I am not looking to end Isreal existing despite the horrible things they have done. every country's hands are soaked in the blood of genocide and war. I want top move beyond that, and have the survivors of the genocides become their own new part of a more aware community that values them.

Isreal should be the ones preserving their historical lands, as should Islam secure theirs for their future practitioners. So I do agree that the jews would be the best people to preserve places like the wailing wall and other hebrew specific areas in Isreal. I can get why their people would want to live there. I do not want Islamic or christian sites demolished over it, but it makes sense as their religious area over an area somewhere else.

The thing I also have a problem with is that we whitewash this idea as caring for the jews when we (as the white christian world) gave the jews Isreal to fuck with them and the muslims. This was clearly a move of exploitation by the US and europe who have a huge anti-semetic streak. I use semite in the proper way because it is against the semite people in their entirety and not just the hebrew people. When I look at the zionist jews who seem to ignore that motivation, I have to see the opportunistic manipulation and power hungry bullshit in their motivation.

The zionist community is actually working with the Nazis to expand Isreal. That is a sign of mental sickness and a deception that is insane and dangerous. @14thDoctor who was telling us all how it is our moral responsibility to punch and kill Nazis is now siding with them to kill palestinians blocking Isreal. That is opportunistic on a genocidal hate level. It is a military strategy that is about wiping out all of your opponents. It is a shortsighted view IMO when you look at how the WASP Nazi is using it to use their enemies to destroy each other while they sit back and will eventually reap the benefits. Really, you are now trusting the Nazis to have your back as Isreal wades into a war with much more than Palestine.

Good plan Jr.

Exactly. Zionism is like Christian Dominionism. It's all about power in the name of god, without any of the empathy, compassion, and restraint that goes along with it. People like John Hagee, who defend Israel and is a Zionist not because he wants to protect Jewish people, but because Jewish people are a tool to be used in leveraging more power for the US, and the Christian fascism he supports. Joe Biden is the same. He openly stated that the US would create an Israel if one didn't exist because it would best serve the US interests in the middle east. Evangelical Christians support Israel because they believe Jesus will return and smite the sinners when the apocalypse is triggered by a bloody war between Israel and its enemies.

These people aren't hiding their hunger for money and power. Netanyahu hasn't hidden his lust for power, or his cabinet's desire for genocide. They have openly stated what they want to do to the Palestinians, and then what they want to do to Syrians, and the Lebanese. They echo the white supremacist screed that to protect their special race, they have to eliminate the untermenschen, the subhumans. They needed breathing room, and so they expanded into Palestinian territory. You'd think, however, from the way some of these Zionists and their defenders talk, Israel was minding its own business when the Palestinians decided to murder them for no reason and invade their land, when it has been the exact opposite situation unfolding throughout modern history.

There is a solution here that will preserve as much peace as possible while allowing Palestinian Muslims, Jews, and Christians to continue flourishing, but it can't be worked out until the US backs the fuck off and tells Israel to quit bombing hospitals, schools, tent cities, and Doctors Without Borders camps. The US has to quit saying "we feel for the people of Gaza" out of one side of their mouth and "here, Israel, here's 45,000 more shells for your tanks" from the other. Anyone with a scrap of intelligence can see this for what it is, and they're pushing back against it. Only the morons who have 9/11 brain can't see it, and of course the trolls don't care to acknowledge it because they're only here to suck the air out of the room.

Uh… why would Israel work with Nazis? That was something the Saudis said in the 1940s, that the Jews worked with Hitler…

Israel is a nationalist state ran by a far right leader who said Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews, but a Muslim convinced him. That was Netanyahu who said this:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/index.html

Nationalism and fascism are birds of a feather. They respect only military power, they exclude specific oppressed groups and blame them for the nation's ills (Nazis->Jews, Zionists->Palestinians), and they demand strict loyalty to the state while also building a connection to the state as part of their identity. For Nazis, it was Aryans against the subhumans. For Israel, it's "true" Jews against the children of Amalek.

There's a reason I say that Zionism is not Judaism.

I just saw this: there's a protest going on in Israel to depose Netanyahu. I honestly believe this is the best thing Israelis could do at the moment, because Netanyahu has no bottom. He will continue the genocide, and spread it to other countries around Israel.

https://twitter.com/giligetz/status/1733542859201228855

Because the nazi right wing of america supports Isreal as a place for the jews to go and get the fuck out of america. If you are a zionist and want for Isreali power thewre is a point where the Nazis want to set you up in Isreal.

The Nazi motives are completely anti-jew, and it becomes much easier to abuse and harm the jews when you get them all into Isreal. It also makes a great place to deport jews off to. That is the master plan. The nazis want to ship jews off to Isreal and out of "their" other nations. There is a reality that the complict sheeple will go along with taking jews and deporting them to Isreal much more than they will with outright killing them.

This all involves giving Isreal enough support to exist and fight with the muslims.

There is a reality to the harm separation of people's does. It allows for lies to be told about the others by the haters. This is why it is important to have jews in europe and america, along with other places.

I come from NY above NYC. Jews have always been in my life, like anyone else. You cannot lie to me about a jew because I know them. When I go down south toi places like rural AL, carolinas, GA, and other mostlyu christian areas, there are not many jews. So anything they see and know of jews is just what they see on the TV.

If you make life so horrible in places that all the jews leave, it allows for the bubble of info to form. The right wing is also doing this to blacks, asians, and glbt people too. That is the point of the nazi terrorism.

What this forms on the other side is a separatist mentality that wants their own private place. The hate forms on the other side of the bubble. Manipulative people use this on the minority side to increase their numbers in their bubbles. This is how cults form and keep their members imprisoned within their system.

The reason why some religions ask their devout to do things that identify themselves visually like shave their heads, or mark themselves, or wear curly sideburns, or have certain types of clothing is that it causes other people to ostracize them and attack them which then keeps the cult member different from other people. Isreal is a great way to do this because if you get all the jews into Isreal then people outside of Isreal will start to be hostile towards jews more and more.

Cult leaders actually want society to victimize the cult members because that helps solidify loyalty and prevent escape. The more you separate the jew from world society, the more the jew will separate from world society themselves.

This is the cult manipulation that is based on power and exploitation.

Those snarky comments aren't exactly the gotcha they're made out to be here. By attacking Israel so blatantly and brutally on 10/7, Hamas ensured Israel would respond disproportionately.

That was the plan.

Hamas attacks. Israel kills thousands of militants and civilians in response. Hamas is perfectly okay with this. Why?

Because this will kill any chance of Arab reapproachment with Isrsel, and Israel wrecking Gaza like an angry child will swing world sympathy towards the poor, dead Palestinians Hamas doesn't give a flying fuck about. Mission accomplished. So a bunch of innocent civilians and Hamas militants die? Good! Martyrs to the cause.

This isn't difficult. Hamas. Is. Evil. And yes, Israel is doing exactly what Hamas wants it to do. By design.

No, it's really not. Feel free to immolate yourself in protest, though.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you still in the "bin laden was right" camp? Because the rest of the kids jumped off that bandwagon in less than 48 hours.