Eighty years ago today. With Trump trying to ban refugees from seeking protection in the United States, with anti-Semitism and Islamophobia on the rise in America, Europe and Australia, with neo-nazis and political extremists on the far right and far left enjoying more support than they have in decades, have we really learned history's lessons?
We're not great at learning lessons from history. Oh, for a few decades, yes, but as distance in time increases, so things are not so much forgotten, but lose their power. The "what if"-s creep in, the failures to recognise parallels, the "it'll be different this time"-s. As for the support for the far-left and far-right, that's really down to centrist politicians failing to get a grip with populations concerns over migration. As someone who is pro-immigration, the realisation that open borders only work with proximate economies has been a bitter pill to swallow, and the constant failures of the centre to tackle the concerns of populations has what led us to here. When I say the collapse of the centre is down to migration, that isn't a condemnation of migration or migrants, but of the politicians, political blocs (hello EU!) and their previous refusal to countenance the existence of any issues, along with being insulated from those issues. Now, of course, being tough on immigration is suddenly in style I really don't know where this is going to end - surely recognizing providing asylum is humane, immigration isn't just generally fine, but actively beneficial, but too high a rate is problematical and counterproductive, and that stating the some immigrant groups have criminal elements isn't the same as saying the entire group is criminal, isn't that complex to grasp? Yet left nor right or centre seem able to. I mean, even Merkel has been brought low by it all - a few years back she looked unassailable. Although watching Macron try and replace her as the de facto Big Cheese of Europe ought to at least be entertaining. Now there is someone utterly oblivious to their own sell-by-date.
How are we not? We've got more and more countries falling under the sway of bullying autocrats and nationalist movements driven by waves of resentment and fear and a migration crisis that's only going to get worse. No, democracy is in a bad way.
Democrats just took the House. We have divided government again, which is probably the best way to go. They will be a bulwark against the worst things Trump tries to pull and the Senate will function as they are supposed to and be the "tea pot". We are not in danger of turning towards fascism. If anything, we will likely go more socialist.
The U.S. is not going to turn fascist as long as our system holds; whether it will or not remains to be seen. But the problem is bigger than one country.
The midterms are enough proof to me that we'll be just fine. Trump will eventually not be the President and life will go on.
Go more socialist? Or so it would seem..... that's just what the fascists wants you to believe...... it's the oldest trick in the book! Hey I don't blame the Nervous Nellies on this board - "the party of fear" has indoctrinated them to overreact to everything. I don't know how they drive to work in the fetal position - maybe they have specially designed cars or something.
@Federal Farmer I like your optimism, and I actually think it's badly needed. However, you're also ignoring the warning signs that are there, and while we might have stabilized just a bit with midterms, we're still likely nearer to the tipping point than any of us would like to admit; we may well creep by it without notice before we're seeing to notice or do something.
Agreed. The ship may be righting itself because ballast has been supplied where it is badly needed, or, we seem righted because the bow of the ship has been sheared off and is sinking to the bottom while the stern floats on top for a few more moments before beginning its descent into the murky depths.
I’m sorry, but I disagree. The pendulum always swings back. We’ve been going back and forth since the nineties. Ever since Clinton, it’s been eight years of a Democratic President, eight years of a Republican President with Congress changing every so often. I think we will see more of the same. I think after Trump, the Republicans will nominate someone less nutty, hopefully Niki Haley or Rand Paul or someone like that. When Trump’s gone, the clowns will follow.
The judges Trump appoints won't be going anywhere when Trump leaves. That's what'll make it harder to move the pendulum back, along with Republican gerrymandering.
Seriously, it's getting sad at this point. Had to listen to the same crap through the Bush years and it's only gotten worse under Trump
I am going to do something you might not expect. I am going to agree with you here. We just have a petty president. It is two more years until the next election. The world is not over. Yes, some things are bad, but they can be corrected. in reality this really has shined a light on some rather nasty festering racism and sexism that we need to address on both sides. We were putting ourselves a little too much on the back and some terrible people started coming out of their holes. What really needs to be said is the republicans are welcome in our accepting country but you have to give up the people who are not accepting because they go against the way we want to allow people to be themselves. Yes, we still have laws like not hurting people which is what you do when you start telling people how to live.
The pendulum does swing back, but with the polarization of the US it's not so much defining an arc as a straight line... each time it jumps to one side of the middle it goes all the goddamn way. If either side shifted their agenda to appeal to voters more, then you'd have true swings. As it is, the last time the GOP lost the Presidency, they did a post-mortem and it suggested they needed to appeal more to blacks, hispanics and women. Trump went WAY off that track, and the GOP went with him... but even before Trump they kinda doubled-down on the mistakes of the past. Will they moderate themselves this time, since they lost? I doubt it. We'll see another leap to the right, so if/when they get power again next time, they'll have even more right-wing shit that they promised their base and have to pull off. The Dems had a similar problem under Obama, and the answer there was the same - do what you can, blame the other side for blocking what you can't. Or use executive orders and look forward to having them stripped by the other side next time they're in the White House. The other issue is that Trump has highlighted a number of areas in which there were assumed or implied conventions for the Presidency that aren't actually nailed down in law, such as emoluments and having family members acting as unofficial staffers. We got a lot of stories in the early days saying "this was always assumed, but has never been tested legally". So far, the US has had vaguely ethical Presidents, or at least Presidents whose own party is at least willing to challenge. But the GOP backed themselves into a corner with Trump - they CANNOT afford to lose his base, so they'll put up with shit that the GOP of ten or twenty years back would have never stood for. Ideally, the Dems should be closing those loopholes now they have some muscle, but they won't because 1) they might need them themselves someday and 2) the GOP will fight tooth and nail to block any such effort. And this is why folk worry - the country CAN fight to drag itself back. But the rhetoric on both sides is getting louder and uglier, so each time it happens the pendulum swing is not seen as natural, but as a deliberate effort by "the enemy" to move the pendulum by hook or crook. There's no middle ground, the downwardmost point of any pendulum. Instead, the new lowest points are how extreme each side has to get in its promises, the expectations that follow, and the lengths to which the other side will go to block them - even if they have merit. Because anything less is seen as a deal with the Devil.
I have a good analogy to compare dems and republican politicians. A couple of dems steal a ten from people occasionally when they do not notice. The republican party identifies your weaknesses, uses them against you to make you so afraid you give everything to them, and then they rape you and beat the fuck out of you for not giving your money up sooner. So yes they are both stealing money but I prefer the dems for some reason.
