Moderate Muslims, everybody.

How do you know that these are moderate or average Muslims? I put it to you that by definition, the people who attend a talk made by such a preacher will not be so.

They admit to being so. Why would they lie to their preacher?

If they were extremists, do you think they'd say so? What does polling data say about Muslim attitudes towards these things?

There didn't seem to be anything extreme about them, as they merely agreed with the social mores found throughout Muslim countries. Muslims won't disagree with punishments laid out in the Koran as being all wise because that's been drummed into their heads for over a thousand years. The West got many of their governments to find wiggle room and excuses as to why they don't have to use such punishments, or to look the other way when possible, but we've never got them to renounce the wisdom and justice of them.

Because apparently extremists are willing to murder and rape and commit all sorts of vile acts, but they're completely above lying.

No, it's just that nobody ever got a room full of Muslim extremists to sit down and shut up.

Muslim Scholar, Looking to ‘‘Speak the Truth,’’ Teaches the Holocaust and Islam

"Dr. Afridi keeps her address and the names of her family members confidential."

I don't think that's because she's afraid of attacks by Jews or Christians. Just sayin'.

Arab leaders stoked up most of the Holocaust denial, but wiser heads would have taken the Holocaust as a stark warning about where radical Islam would lead, and how bad the Western backlash might get. It also ties in to problems with assimilation and multiculturalism, problems that are engulfing Europe.

Foreign Policy recently ran a very good article on the failures of different European approaches. For example, it points out that the UK policy was initially nothing, just bringing in immigrants from all over their former colonies. The immigrants faced some racism and staged a few protests and demonstrations, so the cities picked umbrella organizations to represent them, akin to hiring Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons. The mistake was that immigrants aren't remotely homogeneous in their beliefs, outlook, social class. Some are Marxist, some are arch conservative. Some are pro-union and some are not, or religious, feminist, etc, and many don't even care about their group as a whole. (Danish or Polish actors don't move to Hollywood to revel in their culture and demand roles for being ethnic.) But in setting up the umbrella groups to represent each community, and making the different groups compete with each other for funding and status, it inclined all of the immigrants to think of themselves in ethnic minority, group solidarity terms - when they weren't originally doing that.

The French and Germans took different approaches, which are also discussed at length. I highly recommend it, although it is quite long.

The last time I posted poll data left forge freaked out because it showed, world wide, 30%-40% of muslims supported terrorist organizations. They all cried racism because the facts weren't what they wanted them to be. Also PEW does some pretty good nonpartisan polls.

At some point we're going to have to stop denying the facts and start making policies which reflect the factual realities.

No, that's not what any of your polls said.

30%-40% in some countries said that they may under some circumstances consider violence against civilians to be justified to defend Islam. That is not the same thing as those people supporting terrorist organisations.

And as a counterpoint, ask Americans if they support the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan. I suggest that you'll get a higher number supporting such an attack on civilians.

No, it showed positive beliefa/support for a dozen or so out right terrorist organizations and it went country by county listing the percentage of supporters for each terrorist group.

If you'd bothered to read it or listen to what I said then you'd know that but instead you just went into defcon 5 and refused to even look at it. It was your own little defense mechanism where you blather ed about what you imagined it said or wished it might have said instead of bothering to read what it actually said.

I did read it. Link to where it shows support for actual terrorist organisations in the numbers claimed or STFU.

Go look at the original thread because it was both linked and quoted multiple times.

Durrrrrr, it's because the video says so in the title!

I've actually seen part of that speech before. It was on a recent episode of Panorama after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. The episode's topic? How different interpretations of Islam in Europe are competing against each other and how they may or may not align with western European values. In other words, this guy doesn't speak for everyone even if he claims to.

I have the PEW report sitting in another tab.

http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

Page 97. The question you're referring to states "Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified. Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?"

Yes they would. Why wouldn't they? These are normal muslims. Unless you're suggesting this is a gathering of evil muslims...some sort of annual SPECTRE meeting of some sorts, and the speaker is "Number 1."

That had some other interesting items. Only 40 percent of US Muslims think Arabs carried out the 9/11 attacks, and only 17 percent of those in the UK do.

So at the least we can conclude most Muslims are stupid.

...and even if everyone he's speaking to claims that he does. And even if every single person on the planet other than yourself said so. Because

You've got it right from the horse's mouth in that video. You wanna tell us about true Scotsmen, but you can leave it out.

Actually, the only clear conclusion, is that Castle is stupid. You're a possibility for that, too, but we need more data.

That's right, Face. Don't you dare take even the moderate Muslims' word for it, or according to DefendIslamAtAllCostsForge, you're dumb.

Rick, that one is just on Muslim Americans while the report I linked to in the other thread polled people in all muslim majority nations and several (such as India) with large muslim minorities. It also broke out favorable, unfavorable, self declared supporter, or self declared opposed to a list of at least a dozen terrorist groups.

The support for those terrorist groups obviously varied from country to country but remained shockingly high across the entire muslim world including in supposedly moderate muslim states like Indonesia and Turkey.

Exactly. Because that's the shit their religion tells them to support.

Y'know, when a topic brings me and ConfederateWorDinner into alignment, some of you heads-up-your-own-asses types need to pop your craniums out of your asses, Tupperware sound effect included, and pay some fucking attention.

Your signal to noise ratio is too loud. No one can hear you.

Would those who refuse to hear me hear anybody giving the same warning? They won't even listen to the "moderate" muslims themselves spelling it out in elementary-school block letters.

Actually, what most of us are likely doing is using something called "our brains," which allow us to examine the information available; that information would include testimony, cultural/historical/social/political context, and observation. That they disagree with you doesn't mean they aren't listening. It could mean they have found your lack of evidence wanting, and your assertions baseless or hyperbolic and without merit. That's just the way it works sometimes.

No, it's more that the happy delusions of political correctness and multiculturalism, Star Trek being an obvious example, have given you lazy thinking skills. As world psychological tests go, Americans are freakish outliers, yet most of what you've learned about psychology and sociology have been based on studying those outliers. There are far different ways of thinking and processing, and Westerners even stand out as different from many groups in simple visual tests.

The American left has no problem believing that the American right would gleefully wipe out other cultures en masse, yet can't conceive that other cultures might have very large subcultures committed to doing the same, even as those subcultures preach it from the mountain top. The latest was the ISIS threat that they are going to conquer Rome and throw all the homosexuals from the leaning tower of PIZZA. They may have the pizza part wrong, but the intent is real, and they are throwing gays off tall buildings with gathered crowds ready to hack apart any survivors.

I am not a true Scotsman, only half, and I only ever spent summers in Scotland.

My aunt tells me I got the better part of the deal visiting at summer time.

I still don't know why that dunce VisionCastle thinks I have anything to do with a poster named Wordin. I guess I will just chalk it up to another one of his meth addled delusions. He really should stop smoking that shit.