Mrs. Obama: FINALLY Proud of Her Country?

Whoops. Hey, I've typed 'Osama' a million times and 'Obama' only a few. It's an understandable mistake.

I demand a public clarification!

*Siiiiigh* elections turn this place into fucking South Park.

I'm oudy.

You've already had one!

Yeah, that's why you said "God bless America".

First of all, if you don't believe in God, why does the mention offend you so?

Second, my saying it doesn't preclude anyone else from being blessed. Since I'm an American and we're talking about an American success story, it's entirely appropriate to limit my remarks to America.

Get over yourself.

This from the woman who openly admits she never travels to certain areas of the country!

I'm not "under" myself. You are however an extremist nationalist and need to be made to realise that this is a problem for you.

^ laughing too hard can't reply...

I live in *northeastern* Oklahoma, the educated and progressive part of the state. Flow is out in the sticks amongst the riff-raff.

There's an educated, progressive part of Oklahoma?!? So, does that mean they believe that Adam and Eve were actually half-man/half-monkey?

It's the same way that they know gay people and women don't have it any harder than anyone else. They are eminently qualified to speak on everyone's behalf because they know everyone's points of view, donchaknow?

Why should I have the same argument with you that I did with Raoul? If you can't be bothered to read the discussion that's already taken place, I can probably safely assume that you won't read it if I type it all out again.

Anyone baffled by the notion of an African American looking at the United States and pride not being the first word that comes to their mind, can hardly claim to know everyone's point of view.

oversimplify much?

Actually, I think it's the America part of "God Bless America" that offends him so much.

I understand that gay people and women have it harder than the rest of us. Women are trying to function in a world where men are smarter and stronger and more emotionally stable, and gays have to try to function day to day while continually fighting off their impulses to lure a boy into a public restroom for sodomy.

And then there's Volpone who somehow manages to live both of these hardships at once.

Nope. Don't believe I'll be reading pages 1 through 11.

Yes, and if you believe Flashlight it's in the vicinity of Oral Roberts University.

Civilization begins (and incest ends) once you get west of I-35.

Missed this little gem the other day.

I have no reason to assume that just because she's a black and a woman she's automatically a victim of some type of discrimination.

Could be. But unless she speaks out about it, there's no reason to assume anything about her experience that she isn't willing to make public.

Lacking any evidence at all that she has 'suffered' racism, and having specific evidence that she was awarded a race specific scholarship, then at this point I'd have to say she actual was advantaged specifically because of her race.

Yes. However, how you can rationally defend that she's suffered racism when there's absolutely no evidence that she has and still make that argument is ridiculous.

How was Michelle Obama affected by racism?

Give me specifics.

Which takes us back to my earlier point - it's impossible to disprove a negative.

There's absolutely no evidence that she has.

Yep, there's that rationality again.

I'm certain she's probably encountered individual racists that didn't like her because of her race. I have as well. It would be a rare individual that didn't at some point in their life, even if they weren't aware of it at the time.

But outside of any evidence that she suffered racism that affected her career, job prospects, or education, there's no reason to assume that she has simply because she's a black female.

You are making the argument that with no outside evidence we can't assume that Michelle Obama didn't face discrimination.

I can just as easily say she got where she was by sleeping with her teachers and bosses. There's no evidence one way or the other, so we can't make any assumptions, right?

Of course, that is scurrilous.

Barring any evidence of her being discriminated against, its ridiculous to assume she has been.

From earlier in this thread:

Since that post we've heard that white males can't speak for the experiences of blacks, gays or women.

Hell, I even had a white woman call me 'whitebread.' LOL.

Yes. It's true.

I'm a lesbian.

It offends them that anyone would dare believe in something so foolish.

People who hold to this mindset are the exact same kind of intolerant zealot that they're so critical of.

For people like this, who are bellyaching ad infinitum, ad nauseam, about the pervasive, insidious way that "fundies" are trying to weasel their beliefs into everything are totally incapable of self examination. It never occurs to them that their constant ridicule and censure of people of faith is the same brand of oppressive behavior. It's very fashionable these days to denigrate religion and religious people, especially while marching under the banner of "free speech", brandishing the (consistently misinterpreted) sword of "separation of church and state". It is, apparently, wholly lost on these people that they're trodding on someone else's rights.

Now before you come whining in with, "Yes, but they're always condemning our freedoms," let me just cut you off. Here is why mouthy, high profile internet message board libs are so worthy of scorn: Liberals, as a rule, look down their noses at conservatives and religious people because they tout values which are rooted in (arguably) outmoded principles. God, family, tradition, gun rights and morality, as they're applied, are obsolete, unexamined mythologies that never actually worked well, but got good press at one time in this country. Overall, they're unenlightened points of view.

Now Liberals, conversely, are (as they will tell you) the products of academic seasoning, open-mindedness, tolerance, love of freedom, love of peace and overall magnanimity.

So why, if Liberals are enlightened, if they truly do possess a social and cultural sensitivity that transcends anything which conservatives are capable of, are they so hateful?

Garamet? Diacanu? Any of you others?

If these poor conservatives who don't have the benefit of an enlightened world view are truly so stupid, so naive, why do you feel the need to insult and disparage them at every turn? Shouldn't all that compassion....all that love of peace....all that tolerance make you want to use a gentler touch with these people? Why, if there is truly no god, and these people are so indoctrinated and impoverished do you feel the need not only to deride their beliefs, but suggest that something should be done to "tone them down" or silence them altogether? Why, if they are so bereft of social, political and cultural comprehension, don't you simply overlook their silly arguments and the impotent personal attacks and shine the beacons of truth to which, apparently, you feel you're all heirs to?

C'mon garamet. You're allegedly big on peace and compassion. What standard exempts you from being peaceful and compassionate? Does your enlightenment and sublime world view contain some caveat that permits you to set those aside when you feel that the personality or topic du jour is particularly distasteful to you, giving license for you to condescend and scoff as you please? Does your notorious sagacity mitigate your failure to "rise above it"?

Someone last year commented in one of these forums, "Liberalism has always been about freedom." Ideal liberalism may indeed be about that. That ideal holds that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to hold it without fear of ridicule and recrimination, no matter how unpopular or unfashionable it may be. Popular liberalism couldn't have fallen farther from that revelation.

So, I'm sure that one of the flying monkeys will swoop in and make some comment like, "Well, the fundies are always acting in ways that are inconsistent with what 'Christianity' is all about".

That may be. But, as you people point out with inexorable predictability, they don't know any better, and your education and refinement should put you in a position to be magnanimous.

Fat chance of that.

See, there you go again trying to make my words mean something they don't.

I did not say "I never travel to certain areas of the country."

What I said was, I spend most of my time on the coasts. Because, y'know, I live here. And my work doesn't necessitate a lot of travel.

However, at last count, I've visited over 20 states. I'd have to make a list to be sure.

You're trying for some reason to twist that into "she never travels 'cause she's AFRAID!!!!"

You're going to have to do better. Or just stop being silly.

^ If you've ever in Jacksonville (on the coast) let me know.

I never said you were afraid.

You're an elitist, and you wrap yourself in your own ignorance and assumptions regarding Americans whom you don't understand. If you have any fear it's of having those views challenged. It's a lack of curiousity, a trait you share with the most small minded Bible Belt fundie.

Bullshit. You're just extrapolating from your own prejudices about people who live on the coasts.

You'd have a hard time convincing me that Clinton and Elk City qualify as "civilization." For that matter, I've heard the Mangum night life is really hopping....

Boy, Broken Arrow gets a Bass Pro Shop and you get downright uppity.