Nurse Arrested For... Obstructing Justice? Or Following the Law?

If I was some sort of grand poobah that could wave a magic wand?

• Getting rid of any and all Police Unions.
• Civilian oversight.
• Much more thorough psychological screening prior to hiring and periodic psychological assessments throughout your career.
• Civilian oversight.
• The agencies that pay well get and keep the best candidates.
• Civilian oversight.
• More training than the required State minimums with an increased focus on interpersonal relations and deescalation.
• Civilian oversight.
• Raise the minimum hiring age to 25 years old.
• Civilian oversight.
• Require a minimum of an Associates Degree and two years of service for Senior Patrolman and Corporal.
• Civilian oversight.
• Require a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree (in an appropriate field) and five years of experience for Detectives, Sergeants, and Lieutenants.
• Civilian oversight.
• Require a minimum of a Master's Degree (in an appropriate field) and fifteen years of experience for Captains and up.
• Civilian oversight.
• The ability for public servants to attend state run public universities at little to no employee cost because it's required for the job.
• Civilian oversight.

That's a start.

Sounds like a winning formula to me. I've always admired Plato's concept of philosopher-kings; guardians of the Republic!

I noticed your emphasis on civilian oversight. It's ironic (perhaps intentional) that you chose to emphasize your vaguest and least empirical suggestion. I'm curious -- what form would this civilian oversight take? Are you referring to the proliferation of smartphones or something else?

I assume Elwood is pushing for increased numbers of civilian oversight panels who advise and review police activity. These do exist in some US jurisdictions but are few in number compared to the number of police forces, and there are a few issues that prevent them from being as effective as they might be:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/is-civilian-oversight-the-answer-to-distrust-of-police/

The UK also has publicly-elected Police and Crime Commissioners for each jurisdiction, serving 4-year terms (Below from Wikipedia):

Candidates must be 18 or over and registered to vote within the police area on the date of nomination. Members of the House of Lords are not barred from standing. Members of the House of Commons are not barred from standing but, if they win, they must resign before they can take up a PCC appointment.

Those disqualified from standing/continuing to hold office include:

• Anyone nominated as a candidate at a police and crime commissioner election taking place on the same day for a different police area.
• Anyone who is not a British, European Union or qualifying Commonwealth citizen. (A qualifying Commonwealth citizen is a Commonwealth citizen who either does not need leave to enter or remain or has indefinite leave to remain in the UK.)
• Anyone who has ever been convicted of an imprisonable offence irrespective of whether they actually were imprisoned or whether the conviction is "spent".
• Anyone who is a police officer or is directly or indirectly employed by the police.
• Anyone who is disqualified under certain provisions of the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 including civil servants, members of the regular armed forces or the holders of any judicial offices specified in Part 1 of Schedule 1 of the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 (as amended).
• Anyone who is a member of the legislature of any country or territory outside the UK.
• Anyone who is a member of staff of a local council that falls wholly or partly within the police area in which the election is to be held - including anyone employed in an organisation that is under the control of a local council in the police area for which the election is to be held.
• Anyone who is the subject of a debt relief order or interim order, a bankruptcy restrictions order or interim order, or a debt relief restrictions undertaking.
• Anyone who is disqualified under the Representation of the People Act 1983 (which covers corrupt or illegal electoral practices and offences relating to donations) or under the Audit Commission Act 1998.

Candidates must secure the signatures of 100 people registered to vote within the force area in which they wish to stand and must pay a deposit of £5,000.

The core functions of police and crime commissioners are to secure the maintenance of an efficient and effective police force within their area, and to hold the Chief constable to account for the delivery of the police and crime plan. Police and crime commissioners are charged with holding the police fund (from which all policing of the area is financed) and raising the local policing precept from council tax. Police and crime commissioners are also responsible for the appointment, suspension and dismissal of the Chief Constable.

Shortly after their election to office, a police and crime commissioner must produce a "police and crime plan". That plan must include his or her objectives for policing, what resources will be provided to the Chief Constable and how performance will be measured. Both the police and crime commissioner and the Chief Constable must have regard to the police and crime plan in the exercise of their duties. The PCC is required to produce an annual report to the public on progress in policing.

Police and crime commissioners hold the 'police fund', from which all policing is financed. The bulk of funding for the police fund comes from the Home Office in the form of an annual grant (calculated on a proportionate basis by the Home Office to take into account the differences between the 43 forces in England and Wales, which vary significantly in terms of population, geographical size, crime levels and trends), though Commissioners will also set a precept on the Council Tax to raise additional funds. If a Commissioner wishes to increase the precept by an amount deemed to be excessive, the Localism Act 2011 requires a referendum. It is the Commissioner's responsibility to set the budget for the force area, which includes allocating enough money from the overall policing budget to ensure that he or she can discharge his or her own functions effectively.

I just saw this video. Fucking pathetic and this officer should be forced to turn in his badge and work as a cashier at McDonald's, which is frankly about all he's qualified to do.

The nurse is going to get a nice payday out of this.

Thank goodness for body cams. They're going to change policing in the United States, for the better.

P.S. - fuck this cop.

It's unfortunately also true, as I too speak from experience.

I bet you've had lots of... experience with the police.

Detailed article with video of the crash:
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/salt-lake-nurse-arrest-video/

Pretty clear from the video that the truck driver was minding his own business when the pursued vehicle swerved into him.

This. It needs to be non-partisan and independent. Easier said than done, I know.

You have ten seconds to comply.

Something like this? http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-discipline-20170124-story.html

It is worth remember cops have hard jobs and many of them show great restraint. Not the cop in the OP in that occasion but most do.

The problem in LA is the civilian review board got taken over by hyper partisan activists who only care about blaming cops first, last, and always while letting criminals walk free. Thus why its recommendations were made to be just recommendations instead of binding rulings.

Dayton cop material?

His law enforcement career was cut short, very short, after his negligence allowed a prisoner or two to escape.

Ill-fitting and itchy.

Delemma: the gorgeous chick I was hot for in 9th grade, who is now a nurse, wants me to sign an online petition to call for the cop to be punished.
I figure he's already being punished by the department, his superior who ordered the arrest is just as culpable, and why the hell should the public at large interfere? Plus she's old and wrinkly now and I never had a shot anyway. The hell with it, let her indulge in her revenge alone.

Tell her you'll do it for a blow job. That's what I'd say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=xEeSmhTyM5o

Video of crash

Christ.

Agreed. This seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Second officer placed on leave over Utah nurse arrest video

All involved should be fired.

Utah hospital bars police from contact with nurses after ‘appalling’ arrest

Stupid and they can't do that.

Look the officer was an idiot. So was his supervisor. Both should be fired. Both probably should be charged.

But you can't bar officers from being in the hospital. If they have a person under arrest and that person has to go to the hospital the police have to be there. And it doesn't matter where in the hospital the arrested person is located.

Edit: And no this guy wasn't under arrest so spare the bullshit. It doesn't change the fact that you can not bar law enforcement from being with the people they've arrested but are in the hospital.

I've done hospital details in waiting rooms, emergency rooms, ICU units, regular patient rooms, CT/MRI/X-Ray rooms and in front of surgery rooms. You can't let arrested people out of your sight. Even when they are dead. You've got to wait at the morgue until your cleared to leave.

They will be changing that policy soon. Especially the first time the nurses are begging for police to come help with an unruly patient.

I can easily see this:

Oh and the victim (truck driver) in this case was himself a reserve police officer in Idaho.

You're exactly right. It's a good thing that's not what the article is saying.

You're right. You can't bar law enforcement from entering the facility when they are on official business. However, you can prohibit them for non-official business. You can also prohibit your staff from talking with or assisting law enforcement in any way. You can also bar law enforcement from any and all non-public areas. In a non-life threatening situation, you can refuse to take prisoners (not like you're going to get paid for it anyway). You can also add insult to injury and require that law enforcement be escorted, at all times, by your own security.

It's a two-way street and the hospital is holding all the cards. There's a whole mountain of perks, especially for night-shifters, at the hospital and now those are gone. Good.

Things I've done at our local hospital that I wouldn't be able to do any more:

The hospital is the very best and cleanest place to poop in the middle of the night.
Because they liked me I got to use the Doctor's Lounge or the Employee Bathroom.
Always a free cup of coffee from the Employee Lounge.
Always a smile and friendly conversation when you're bored out of your mind at 0400.
The dining room may be closed, but dietary would always throw something together if you went down there and were hungry because everywhere else was closed.

All that's gone.

Also, remember, those times when you're watching a prisoner and you're bored out of your mind and the staff offered you a cup of coffee or a snack? Yeah, to bad. Remember when they let you use the Nurse's Lounge bathroom so you didn't have to go half-way across the building? Yeah, two floors down and around the corner by the stairwell now, champ.

And, all of this under the ever watchful eye of a rent-a-cop that probably makes more than you do.

Looks exactly like that is what the article is saying:

"She said police will no longer be permitted in patient-care areas, such as the burn unit where Wubbels was the charge nurse on the day of the incident."

Everything beyond the waiting room is a patient-care area.

If the officer is on official duty whether the person he seeks is a victim or someone arrested he has the right to be there.

Law enforcement shouldn't be in a hospital if they aren't on official business anyway. Just being law enforcement shouldn't be a right to trespass without cause.

Prohibit the staff from talking to the police? That's a nice lawsuit. Especially government owned hospitals.

Let them waste time and money having security escorting me around. It's not insulting me. I'd have a good laugh with the security guy.

No problem. I'll just file a complaint if the bathroom is filthy. Hospitals may be different where you are but where I am the nurses don't like their precious bathrooms to be violated by law enforcement.

Snack? What is this snack thing you're talking about? Coffee? Only if you're paying for it.

Did have very nice medical staff offer water on the last detail but again where I'm at that other stuff doesn't happen.

It will blow over. Nurses and doctors aren't so dumb as to think all officers are like the two idiots in this case.

You went back and changed things so I'm responding to the changes.

None of this happens where I am. I'm in a big city. Very big hospitals. All of them. Huge!

Staff is way too busy most of the time. Again I'm not in some rinky-dink country hospital.

With that said I've had plenty of nice conversations with staff.

Again none of that applies to me. Coffee? Snack? Paid for with my own money.

Bathroom? Public bathroom it is.

I'm willing to bet I make more than you or very close to what you make as a LT.

Not quite. You're allowed to be in non-public areas only so far as your duty allows. If you're guarding an inmate and you're relief spells you, you can't wander off wherever you want. You're allowed to be in your charge's immediate vicinity, that's it.

Actually, no. If you come up to talk to a victim the staff can bar your entrance. It happens all the time. The first instance that pops into my head is an MVA victim that's doped up on pain killers. No, the staff isn't going to let you talk to them and a good cop is going to back off because no statements the patient makes would be admissible anyways. They're doped out of their mind.

How so? Putting on my Hospital Chaplain pants for a moment, I'm required to make absolutely no statements to Law Enforcement. That pesky right to remain silent means I don't have to answer any questions. Period. Now, you and I both know there are potential repercussions to that, but it's not legally challengable. Everything I do, see, and hear is legally privileged. Not just because I'm a Chaplain, but because I'm a healthcare worker.

Except, you know, he's not allowed to talk with you at the risk of losing his own job.

I'm sure that'll go right in File 13.

Sounds like they are. Maybe it's because we're not jerks.

Again, we get free run because we're nice.

Anyone with any experience knowns that most of them are.