Permissive parents: Curb your brats

The one I'll never forget was the woman and her two kids in the vet's office waiting room, which was maybe 8 x 10 feet. We're sitting there with our poor sick dog, and the two kids are like Tasmanian devils running around, climbing on furniture, screaming at each other, running outside and back in, jumping over the dog. Once, and only once, the mother said, "Come on, guys, calm down, please?" The little girl climbed up on her mother's lap, put her face in her mother's face, and said "I don't HAVE to!" then rejoined her brother with their F5 tornado antics.

Are you allowed to beat your kids in New Jersey?

Good thread, Jamey. Saw this article yesterday. Was reminded of when I was named "The Second Meanest Mother on the Block."

Anyone who lays a hand on someone else's kid should have that hand chopped off. Like a Saudi thief.

Anyone who thinks it's ok should have their head examined. I can't think of many things that would make me more angry than someone else disciplining my kids.

You mean San Francisco?

The old saying still holds: children should be seen and not heard.

Yep... around that time, even up the early-mid 80's. If you misbehaved, your friend's mom/dad would let you know that you did something wrong. And if you parents found out, then you got it double.

In my opinion, discipline is one of the actions that accompanies love. If my children are around another parent, this will be someone I trust; they won't be hanging around families I wouldn't want them to be part of if we were to die.

I suppose if I didn't know who my kids were with, I could understand your point of view. But since I will, and since I view discipline as being a part of love, and since I will love my kids, I won't want to shield them from correction at the expense of the long term development.

I can, off the top of my head: Finding it necessary to discipline your kids.

There's one just for starters.

BULLSHIT!! You remember this from being 2 or 3??? BULLSHIT!! Yeah, my parents gave me the glare and I stopped too but I was over 7. Glaring at a 3 year old accomplishes nothing.
It is a battle of wills when dealing with a toddler. They are pushing you to see how much they can get away with and your constrained because you're in a public place and you can't go full force on them. I'm not saying that you just let them run amok. But you still have to let them be kids. If you keep them engaged at the table or in the store then they are fine. It's the parents that completely ignore their kids that cause the problems so that the rest of us parents who rein in our kids get crap because our kid happened to pick that one minute of the whole day to act up in earshot of some asshole who hates kids.

Not being ableto go full force on your kids is, in and of itself, a HUGE problem... IMHO.

^This. Emphasis mine.

That said, anyone else ever notice how many self-appointed "experts" on child-rearing have no kids themselves? All they've got to fall back on is "Well, I remember when I was a kid..."

The evenflow child rearing philosophy is as follows...

They're already children, so congrats, you've made them. The eventual goal is for them to be adults, so bear in mind that every lesson and every disciplinary action needs to nudge them in that direction. You don't have to do it all at once, you've got fifteen years or so to get them up to speed. Just remember that the entirety of their lives will be spent as grown ups, so try to raise them as such.

That is all.

This.

If your kids are old enough to have gotten the "we don't act that way when we're out" talk, several times, there's NO excuse for that behavior being imposed on others. The parents should have the good sense to take their brats and go home.

Likewise if, as a parent, you've got a vocal toddler who's pitching a fit, your need for a "night out" should be abbreviated because no one else should have to put up your screeching banshee of a child.

Not so fast. There's a significant amount of this problem that has nothing to do with how the parent raises the kid, but how much (or how little) respect the parent feels that he or she owes people upon whom his or her children are inflicted.

You don't have to have kids to understand that.

I do remember quite a bit from when I was 3, not so much 2, but 3 I do. And as a toddler, if they're allowed to do as they want, then they'll always do as they want when they get older. I know kids aren't perfect, but letting do as they want when they're toddlers, and not changing that will have them always acting like little assholes.

And if a parent can't understand that others should not have to deal with their children because they run amok, disturb others with their screaming and running around disrupting others, that child will never learn respect for others, because they themselves don't have respect for those around them. If the parent doesn't know how to respect others, then the kid never will either.

I'm very fortunate that I have plenty of people that I trust but it's still not up to them to discipline my children and I think it's unfair to place them in a situation like that, not to mention lazy parenting on my part. And for the record here I'm talking about physical discipline, not something as benign as sending a child to their room. You're seriously ok with someone, whom you trust even, laying a hand on your child?

Discipline is important, so important that it's up to myself and my wife - and only us - to implement it.

Kudos to you if you think you can control each and every scenario your child will be in, but unfortunately that's a tad unrealisitic. You just have to do your best.

I feel the shame when my kids act up. I dread taking them out to restaurants. Took them out the other week with my grandmother for my wife's birthday and the older one whose smart but not experienced enough to know how to keep some thoughts from leaving her mouth was determined for me to act. Fortunaly as she is the older one she knows when daddy gets that look shes skating on thin ground.

The younger one is a daredevil hellion. She rides right up the line going and forgets that sometimes I'll cross that line and come after her. You don't want to laugh but sometimes the "oh shit" look on their faces can be priceless.

I also get pissed that it's too dangerous to swat them on the ass in public because some asshole woman or metrosexual hippie male (ain't no such thing as a metrosexual hippie man) would call the cops. Sometimes a kid needs a slap on the butt to get their attention. Sometimes words don't work especially when they've got sugar racing through their system like speed/crack/cocaine all mixed in one.

Although I agree that it shouldn't even be necessary in the first place and can't stand laissez faire parents who let their kids run wild, I think your priorities are out of whack.

I can't remember anyone other then my parents disciplining me. Must be a "where you live" thing.

I for one want to be able to discipline the parents.

Self-righteous "experts" in this thread seem to think that kids will ALWAYS fall in line when a little discipline is applied, and/or always respond to logic or polite requests. I've got news for you...you're living in a fantasy world!

Should parents teach their children to behave and discipline them when they don't? Abso-frickin-lutely!

Will they always be successful at this? Will it work every time?
No-freaking-way!

If breakdowns in discipline occur in a public place, yeah..there's not much you can do about it without being thought off as an ogre by the oblivious parents, other than to glare at them/the kids.

However in a family setting, such as Apostle's family BBQ? I'm sorry, but in that setting you've got every right to tell the little bundles of energy to sit down, shut up, find another place to play, etc... yourself! And if you're not close enough to your siblings/cousins/friends to do that to their kids, even though you're close enough to attend the same BBQ...then that's a pretty fucked-up relationship you've got going on!!!

Yeah, I know, I can hear the whine coming a mile away..."but I shouldn't HAVE to!!!" Wah! Fucking cry me a river! Parents can't be everywhere at once. There's no guarantees that they won't be making a plate of food for the kid, or in the bathroom, or whatever, when the kid gets whiney/fussy/goofy... Just deal with it yourself for the moment or STFU.

And I speak as a parent of pretty well-disciplined kids. Shit happens, nothing's perfect. Deal with it!

Sorry - had actual work to do.

So, to expound ...

Yea, my parents were very strict and were firm believers in what Lanzman said "children should be seen and not heard". But, family gatherings were supposed to be fun - for both the adults and the kids.

apostle's post did not say anything about kids getting into his plate, only that he was looking one way and another toddler fell into his plate.

Well, guess what, fucking apostle should have been sitting at the fucking table if he can't keep hold of his plate with 5 toddlers running around.

I am a very permissive parent and yet, I'm able to keep him in line in public places.

Guess why.

Cuz when he's at home, he's able to act like a kid. also at family gatherings.

If you want to keep your child on a tight leash, expect to have an animal as a teenager.

No argument. Anyone who's read my rants about airline travel knows I concur.

Exactly.

I don't really like seeing them, either.

I know that kids can't behave perfectly, but there's a difference between a kid that is being a kid, and a kid who doesn't have any respect at all for others around him/her. Kids running around the whole place, opposed to a kid who runs around until their parents are seated. Kids come up to your table and act like you're not there opposed to kids who come up to your table and say "Hi, I'm 6 and my name is Hailey!".

If you're in a restaurant, that's another story entirely. For their safety alone, kids shouldn't be allowed to run around a restaurant. But, also because they need to be taught not to behave like that - even as toddlers.

Or kids who come up to your table and climb up on your table.

someone else's kid?

When Dad was about 9 years old (somewhere around 1930) he was trespassing on a neighbor's property. This neighbor was a German immigrant, and apparently WWI hadn't quite worn off yet. So being a brat, Dad stopped in the front yard and yelled "Karl's a dirty German!" at the house on his way through.

Karl stepped out on the front step with a shotgun full of rock salt, Dad ran, and Karl nailed him in the ass.

Dad ran home crying to his father and said "Karl shot me with rock salt!"
"Why?"
"I, well, I ran across his yard and called him a dirty German."
SMACK across the face, and "I told you to stay off his land!"

Such was the discipline given to the generation that went on to save the world.

^My question would be who taught your father to call people "dirty Germans."

Prevention is preferable to cure.

Children should have the experience of being children. But not at the expense of the adults.
Today with either both parents working or only one parent households it's difficult to have to devote 100% to raise and discipline the little monsters.

Again, the lady who has abandoned her family chimes in like she is worthy of giving advice.

Remember that part about "food launch" and it being "epic"? The tray was on a freaking table.