Because of rep? No. Because of what Wordforge became? Maybe. As I've said before, the attitude and direction of the board changed, and not for the better.
We had a poll on 6/22/2011 It overwhelmingly favored leaving the rep system alone, and yet, the rep system was changed, again. Worse, everybody's rep was deleted, again. If you've the time give the thread a look, the yeas and nays alone make for an interesting read. Chuck's stance in particular. Creating drama isn't a staff function. Yet now we're gonna start another rep poll and claim the results will matter this go around? Seems we're trolling the board with changes to the rep system, again. As for what to do now? Dump the rep system, if only on a temporary basis. 6 months maybe? Or Restore the +/- affect on reputation and allow every members rep to count regardless of rep status Or Do nothing. Wordforge will roll on in spite of the rep system. Currently I'm leaning toward the first option. Edited to add - Just in case there are some "late" votes to the previous poll here are the results as of now - Do Nothing. I like it just the way it is. 52.75% I would prefer a non-point based comment system. 21.98% Just toss the entire thing, we don't need it at all. 4.40% I don't care. 20.88%
I don't see what any of that has to do with rep. I, for one, am glad to not have all the stupid rep whine/rep war threads anymore. We are always going to have junk threads, but now we have a few less rep related junk threads.
Ward had stated public reasons for his absence, well in advance of the whole rep thing. Caboose's activity hasn't really changed, and you and Sokar not posting as much isn't a loss. For christ's sake, if the board is slow, it's because it's Thanksgiving weekend, right after a fucking presidential election no less.
Do we even need rep at all? Rep should be nothing more than something akin to Facebook's "like" button. Yet it became a tool for trolling. It took the place of debate. Say what you will about the "benefits" of rep the way it was, but in a way it controlled debate. It's what caused a shift towards one political philosophy on WF in place of any debate on the issue. Quite simply you could predict what the opinions of certain individuals was going to be and if you had an opinion that was against the norm often you'dnot post it because the response would be a ton of neg reps from the usual suspects. Beyond that rep became a toy for use that overtook the actual content of threads. People such as Muad and his little cabal were no longer engaging in debate, but rather sitting behind rep, pack hunting (and it's no conicidence that they ran away and now post less on return than they did before the rep reset). As I recall, WF was supposed to be about debate. If you really want to encourage new members, then you do not do so by having a toy which permits individuals to gang up against people, possibly new members, and make them feel unwelcome with childish "rep wars". If WF is ever to return to being about debate than, in my opinion, restoring rep to what it was is counter-productive. But, let's be honest here, with supposedly reformed rep warrior Scorp now as second in command, as Tamar likely to kiss the same butts as before, we will no doubt go back to the immaturity of rep wars, despite this poll actually (at the time of posting this) favouring the new system. So what's the point of this thread?
MAKE interesting discussion. Don't just hide behind rep wars when things get boring. It's not good enough to say that it's everybody's else's job but yours to make debate. If you have a valid opinion then say it. It's surely going to try and get things more towards discussion than blurting out any old shit and hoping six like-mided buddies will come along and neg anyone who says anything different. It depends what you want from the board. Discussion where everybody agrees and no counter opinions are offered to make you consider in your head whether your standpoint is right or wrong, or a whole range of opinions where the mind might actually be stimulated. Which is it?
The Exception should be recognized for his razor sharp wit and wisdom, his notable people skills, and above all else his unflappable character.
You don'tthink there is anything inherently faulty about asking opinion and then, right off the bat, telling everyone that the old system was better and the new system is a failure? We know exactly where this is going. Tamar will give the rep warriors their toy back, irrespective of the outcome.
Hmmm. I don't remember naming a second-in-command and I certainly wouldn't choose someone who has been on staff a couple of days, even though I think he's doing a wonderful job so far. And I am doing this because Lanzman promised to revisit it in six months and didn't get to it. He and I both agreed even before he left that leaving the ultimate choice up to the membership was the best idea. So, yes, this poll will be the decision.
I never said or meant to imply the old way was "better". I just felt on any real substantial level that this way hadn't changed a whole lot that made all that much of a difference. Plus, it's only an opinion. Since when on this board has anyone's opinion stopped anyone from speaking their mind...I mean, really!
Considering trying this experiment was my initial idea to begin with that Lanzman liked, that's a funny assumption.
Who gets to decide whose opinion is valid? I think it's more like seven but yeah changing rep hasn't changed that behavior. Ha! When's the last time you've said something like "You know, now that I think about it, you're right, thanks for showing me the light, I think the insults about my mother really helped open my eyes." Nice little binary wrap-up from the guy using another members photo as an av.
Sorry, but this is a pretty dumb idea. WF is the mix of the people here. If you have, say, 2 right wingers and 12 lefties, or vice versa, then the rep winner will always be the person with the popular opinion. But it doesn't always mean that opinion is right merely because the rep outcome reflects popular opinion on an issue. An example would be if this were a site like, say Stormfront, and I came on here and said "I hate niggers". I'd then get about 10 pos reps and one neg. Doesn't mean the statement isn't still ignorant and ill-informed. Awarding trophies for "winning" rep is nothing more than rubbing the ego of whoever has the most popular opinions. Debate should be about bashing through an issue and, perhaps, occasionally changing the minds of others along the way (whether they openly admit it or not). This is lost if a debate becomes about who can win a trophy.
The sentence means that if you have an opinion then you say it, instead of not saying it because you either might look an idiot or get neg repped. Whether an opinion is valid or not is obviously in the eye of the beholder, namey the person who advances the opinion. Should the most important thing in debate be not be people putting their points of view across if they feel strongly about them? Or is that ancillary to popularity contests? I disagree. As was observed earlier in the thread, since rep was dumped debate has become more varied, people of differing political opinions have returned, some have started posting more, others have felt more happy to advance dissenting opinions and the rep warriors, at least those who can't properly debate, have been shown up for what they really are. If people haven't spotted the change then they're fucking blind. As I observed above, a person doesn't need to actively admit it i a thread to have their mind swayed by opinion. What would you rather have, a situation where you never read anything that makes you sit and think when you switch off your laptop, or just the same unstimulating crap, over and over? Um, the connection is what exactly? The use of an avatar depicting and obvious attention seker is against board debate, how exactly?
Gotta have some perspective bub, we're talking about a rep poll on Wordforge, everybody will have their say, probably a couple times over. So I don't see Tamar's post as having much effect if any. If anything it seems to have served as a catalyst for the "Leave rep alone" crowd. I don't think so, likely we'll have the compromise I suggested above - "Restore the +/- affect on reputation and allow every members rep to count regardless of rep status"
Yet you determined, before the poll had even started, that the experiment was a failure. As the poll so far indicates, it's been far from a failure. Even if a return of the old system ultimately prevails in the poll, you can see that so far, an average of about half the board think the new system is better. Hardly the hallmarks of a failure.
I find in curious that the parts of my post that you and Tamar are concentrating on are those in which I have stated that the outcome may not accurately reflect board opinion, rather that the more substantive elements of my posts dealing with how to try to encourage debate and what efefct the rep system may have on new sign ups. Why is that?
I know this may not have occurred to you, but some people may have changed their mind from June of last year. I voted "I don't care" at the time, but since then my opinion has changed. So are you going to argue that my current opinion is irrelevant, or that my past one is?
Good answer. That too depends on the eye of the beholder. Guess for people who couldn't take a neg-rep the answer was obviously the latter Just when I was about to agree that this was another eye of the beholder thing you finish off with - "If people haven't spotted the change then they're fucking blind." So never? This question doesn't hinge upon the rep system. Perspective bub. Three points here - It's not an either/or situation You're not exactly bringing the love Lighten up
Yeah, yeah I know, you're angry. If you were able to take a joke I would make one about you being a flip-flopper. My gosh, are those my only options? You crafty devil, clearly you are as smart as you are likeable.
What an idiotic sentence. Don't you see that if there is no rep there is no longer and issue between people "who can take it" and those "who can't take it"? That's so astonishing immature it's unreal. It's like saying to a school kid, if you can't handle bullying then tough shit if you hate school and can't learn as well. My opinion is not based on whether or not anyone can "handle" nep reps. Hell, I got plenty, but never enough to reduce my greens, nor was I ever the victim of a rep war. I have no source of butthurt over the issue. What I am discussing is what has been bandied about by the likes of Tamar, namely restoring debate to some level and getting in new members. The idea is putting everyone on even footing where the first and last measure of debate is in the content of an opinion and not a toy. On one hand the likes of you and Tamar are saying, we want the old ways back (interms of debate, not rep) and new members, and on the other hand you are completely and utterly resistent to any discussion of what may compound this. It's not eye of the beholder at all.....the current poll figures are proof of this. At the time of posting this nearly 57% say that the new system has been an improvement. Are you really suggesting that those 57% have seen no change, and it's just one or two of us posting in this thread that has noticed it? So never? [/QUOTE]I have walked away froma thread many times thinking about an issue, whether or not I have admitted it in a thread. Burt no so much when this place became about all having the same view. Interesting how you keep needing to adress me with the word "bub" to remind that my opinions on this issue are not valid. How mature. Yet you are completely unable to answer the question. The question doesn't hinge on rep. but rep is a contributing distraction from debate. So, can you answer the question? Ah, "lighten up", the witty retort of those who can't answer. In other words, the av has nothing to do with rep.
