Riot Control aka. An Easy 3 Step Program to Restore the Peace

As do I. I registered there some years ago, mainly to prevent anyone over there from using the "Lanzman" handle.

Where did that happen?

The day we start doing that kind of underhanded garbage and I find out about it, I am out of here and no amount of guilt trips will change my mind. You deal with people cleanly or you ban them, IMO.

That said...honestly only Faisent deserves to be banned. He willfully leaked information he agreed to keep private. My anger wants to send Gul with him...but what has he done that is against the rules? Before any of you were mods or observers...who among you wouldn't have wanted a source telling you dirt? Because that is all he did...he wasn't in here himself, he just talked a dupe into providing him what he wanted.

What rule does it break? No, Gul shouldn't be banned...but every detail of what he did should be exposed and let the people who love Wordforge take care of the rest. He can also look forward to no more leeway, ever, when he breaks a rule.

Oh and on a related note, I think it is about time we let moderators participate in rep war if they want to considering they have no more rep than anyone else and there is no way for them to abuse that feature by being on staff. Admins of course could not, both due to our unlimited rep capacity and it is just better if we don't.

Hear hear!

Though I think Chatacranny needs to go. He basically admitted to the DW crap.

Banning due to no prior contribution.

He admitted nothing.

He's another TK talentless troll who is trying to take credit for things he had nothing to do with. That tactic is rampant over there lately as none of them are any good at trolling anymore.

Why in god's name would El want to keep Gul around? Even without me in place, he's STILL going to start shit anytime he gets an opportunity.

If you want him to set the tone for Wordforge, then so be it.

^ It's hard, but agreed with Bear. gul is a hell bent on creating trouble, and he won't stop at a shitstorm's natural end. I'm rather intrigued by how he keeps up the appearance of WF being an oppressive prison

Okay, kill faisant and pul gul on a very short leash. Have it explained to gul in no uncertain terms that if he so much looks at anyone cross-eyed, he's gone, too. And expose his activities in conspiring with faisant to the whole board. Maybe that will put the fear of God into him.

^

While I agree, prepare for gul to climb up on one of these.

This would be more appropriate.

Here's a piece of the puzzle that I'm missing. Sure Gul was recieving inside info from a mole. This in and of its self is bad enough, and I'm not asking for leniency for him, but what did he actually do with the info? Was Elwood's anti-biotic induced consideration of selling the board leaked? Was it anything beyond that that anyone is aware of?

This is my point.

Yes, he's been doing his damndest to stir the pot and cause divisions all kinds of shit...but I think if we ban him he will use it to cause more.

Revealing his shit will take away his power and credibility. And not banning him will take any oomph out of accusations we are unfair bastards.

Tossing out anyone who would cause a shitstorm would make for a tiny, silent, boring board. You people who are like, ban anyone who makes things uncomfortable are acting just like TBBS before we left. And I know it's a stupid thing people use all the time when it isn't true, but this time it is.
If the membership doesn't end up driving him out on a rail, I am sure his own behavior will give us ample opportunity later. I suspect banning him outright will just blow up in our faces.

For what my opinion is worth, I wouldn't ban anyone. faisent is no longer a threat since he doesn't have access, and the general membership will take care of them both. No one is going to fall for gul's bullshit once this is all released, and the disappointment in faisent is probably enough that he won't even want to come back. Just my opinion.

Hey, I should probably be the last one you accuse of being trigger happy. Point is: I see it as self defense now. Next shitstorm might be the last one and decisive action just might put it off.

Of course I could be wrong. But my gut tells me cutting the throat of this particular raging bull would be prudent at this point. Exposing, of course, is the next best thing. I just can't see how it can be done without stirring the privacy pot. All that can be done without posting the damning PMs is pulling a Bush, dance in a circle and sing 'I have the evidence but I wooooon't show!'. Which brings us back to square one.

*sigh

That's true. I forgot that we wouldn't be able to post the PMs.

In this case, I think we can.

Both Faisent and Gul gave permission for their PMs to be examined. Gul, publically. The violation of trust against the board is aggregious enough that it needs to be shared.

If we tell the board it was a choice between exposing the traitors for their judgement and justice or a permaban with no explaination, you know damn well what the board in general will choose there.

It is secretly reading PMs that the board is against, not something like this.

Will some trolls try to use it? Of course, but they will do that with anything. It isn't just Gul on the line here...it is us. What we do here could really help us or do us in....and I think we need to take the chance and trust our community. They are sick of this shit too, and when they find out it has been fostered and continued on purpose..even using Elwood's personal situation and barely a pause even when Techman passed, it isn't going to sit well.

Banning can always happen later. Give the board a chance first.

As my grandpa always said, the only good horse, is a dead horse.


Either that or we geld him.

Sorry. I'm not willing to let people who demonstrate such a cavalier attitude towards betrayal stay around.
Faisent's was an outright betrayal of direct trust... Gul threw Flow under the bus to direct us towards him as DW suspect without a blink.

Where, other than TK? And there, no one took him seriously.

Yup, although Storm has been trying to stir it just as hard, only his attention has been directed at causing trouble for Gul.

Also, while it's not something to be encouraged, when is trying to get someone off Staff ban-worthy? If I recall, the last time a few posters got together to hound one of the staff one of them ended up buying the place.

1) Where?

2) Storm has done far more publically to try and get people to think Gul is DW.

1. It's probably good it isn't your call then. The atmosphere on this board right now is unstable and what we decide to do will tip the balance. Regardless of how we feel, we need to consider the board as a whole..and the best way to refute everything Gul has been saying and will say about us is to not just ban them. To let the community have it's say on what they think about betrayal and backstabbing.

2. I have yet to see evidence that Gul is DW. Gul is stirring the pot and manipulating things...that is apparent in the PM, but there is no real connection to DW here. Gul's reaction to Storm is most likely a guilty conscience from his machinations, but whether those machinations included being DW isn't clear.

The decision, of course, rests with Elwood...I am simply adding my thoughts and what I see and my own insights on it. But I truly think this is an important call that will have ramifications for a long time and needs to be made not just from emotions but with some objectivity.

Ironic post of the day:

http://www.wordforge.net/showpost.php?p=1278694&postcount=92

Pot, kettle anyone?

If/when Nick comes around tonight, maybe we can start to figure this out.

I await the results with baited breath.

Upon due consideration, I agree with Tamar's reasoning.

http://www.wordforge.net/showthread.php?p=49502

Gul and Storm are going at each other again (Gul started the thread) Since it's relevant, here is the PM from Rosencrantz that several of us received. He gave permission for it to be shared.

That's a pretty direct threat of real-world consequences. Intolerable. Storm should feel some heat for that. Probably be banned.

Also, just so it's on the record and it doesn't look like anything shady is going on, when Gul refers to having being told there is an investigation going on that comes from me just telling him that the message was being discussed (since I had in fact discussed it with Rosencrantz) No leakage or anything going on before people start worrying.

I've got good reason to believe that Elwood would appreciate it if everyone in here would chill out until he can get back and handle things.

I love the assumption that because Storm sent me the PM that I was somehow in on it. I got it when they did!

By the time I read that, it was already done. Not much I can do about it then. Knowing Storm personally, I know Gul is in no danger from Storm...he just wanted gul to think so. Good evidence of that is the fact that Hood still lives and breathes and works despite all the knowledge Storm has on his real life and the fact Hood betrayed him personally with pictures of his wife.

If there was ever a time for Storm to really do something to harm someone, that would have been it.

And the fact is....there was no direct threat. There are insinuations and hints but Storm never says "I am going to reveal Gul's information" people have threatened to reveal stuff all the time and even threatened to kill people here before without being banned. Even in this PM he says "it's anyone's guess what I'd do with it" that isn't a direct threat either.

Gul himself was no better and in fact named a name with this gem:

Post #112, Thread Closings, Help Desk.

It's a very thin line. And I still am not sure where exactly I fall here. But the question is...without a direct threat, is it anything other than a troll?