Shooting at Florida high school

Yeah...5.56 and ARs themselves are light as hell. "Pound for pound", I can't think of anything that comes close to an AR.

Nearly thirty years ago, after the Stockton, CA school shooting, ABC News ran an hour-long special on guns in which they showed the relative destructive power of an AK round versus .30-06 by shooting watermelons. The AK shots broke the fruit into big chunks while the hunting rifle round practically vaporized it.

I wish I could find a copy of the special because it was really well done. I miss Peter Jennings.

That a high powered hunting rifle (a rifle that has more stopping power per round) can deliver more carnage than an AR-15. In other words one round hitting you from a .308 in the same part of your body will destroy more (and more quickly) than a .223 round due to greater kinetic energy. That said humans don't haul ass the second they are shot like animals do.

When I was zeroing the scope I put on my PTR, the back stop was pretty much mud. It looked like I was launching grenades over there.

But "pound for pound", a 5.56 does at least as much damage as a .308 due to tumbling and fragmentation...in addition to having 6 times the capacity.

Orginal ARs and M4 clones are light. An A2 with a loaded magazine is nearly 9lbs, not much less than a Garand.

I've never held a garand, but there's no comparison between my PTR and my AR....of course the PTR holds 20 rounds.

I remember reading criticism of the M16A2’s weight shortly after it was adopted in the 80s, saying that it defeated the purpose of having that rifle in the first place.

it depends on what you mean by "damage" and what species you are trying to stop & how fast you need to stop that species. You know you can get a .308 version of an AR-15 which has the same rate of fire as the .223 version but has much more stopping power per round. So I guess if you need to take out a bunch of NFL players versus school kids this would be the style you need.

Well yeah. Round for round a .308 does more damage...a lot more...but you said "pound-for-pound". A 5.56 does damage way out of proportion to it's size.

It is -- or rather the tweet is real, but @MaxinePWaters is a parody account.

Still wouldn't surprise me if she said something like that.

The shooter did not use high-capacity magazines.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/report-parkland-shooter-did-not-use-high-capacity-magazines/

Point of order. "High-capacity" AR magazines are anything over 30 rounds.

Anything over 30 is considered high capacity? I did not know that. Of course different states can set their own limits. I don't know if the military uses anything bigger than that for 5.56 ammo. I think we used 20 round a lot if memory serves because it's convenient for keeping accurate inventory and if you get 40 rounds to qualify then 2 magazines of 20 just makes senses. Side note my assigned M-16 I took to Iraq was FUBAR and you couldn't keep a magazine secured in it for shit. Granted it only takes a couple of seconds to slap one in, but still.......

And yes I see your point on "pound-for-pound" on the 5.56 round - it can perform very effectively for the bullet weight. As more and more people successfully deer hunt with them there is much evidence they aren't the "pea shooter" people used to consider them.

I thought a major problem with the early M-16s was that the thin metal on the magazines tended to get bent and thus jam if you slapped them in to the rifle improperly.

That's kind of a relief, I guess.

I'm so glad we can have this conversation about relative killing capacity of different firearms. It goes to show what a resilient culture we are. Especially in a thread about a lawful gun ownership.

Fuck off.

no, fuck head; it means controlled. Show me a self disciplined militia in any era without leadership and direction, aka control.

1) you don't know the meaning of etymology. Look it up.

2) look up the etymology of "regulated."

You're not stupid, so the only conclusion is you're irrational. Not a pretty picture when it comes to gun ownership.

Hypostatic union? Cool! I didn't know a 53 Buick automatic tranny had a place in christianity, but now I do. The more you know!

Don't play coy.

Self-disciplined is self-controlled. Regulated has the meaning of "operating properly," which is what a self-disciplined person does. I've provided examples from the 18th Century Oxford dictionary that fully support my interpretation.

Regulation in the sense you want to mean it has no historical support--militiamen provided their own weapons and ammo per the Militia Act of 1792, from the Washington Administration--and makes no sense in context. Militiamen were expected to be (self-)disciplined in their use of arms.

You're confusing him with facts.

I don't know why you guys bother.

Steve is unethical. He will lie in order to support his goal of banning guns. He's not interested in facts.

The fact you were supposed have your own gun and ammo, meaning it wasn't provided by the state but bought and paid for with your own money, and show up with it when called for defense of the country since the founding fathers didn't want a standing army is irrelevant to him.

that's actually my other consideration here... that state run militias fulfill that regulatory body.
To be effective, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that they at the very least have an inventory of who has what available.
Of course, by that same token it implies that the state would have no liability to outfit those serving and that reporting for training could be made mandatory...

Again, the police aren't really there to protect anyone so this shouldn't be a surprise.

"Oh look an unarmed suspect, better shoot him dead."
"Oh look, an armed suspecting killing people, better not do anything useful."

The interests of law enforcement, in order, are as follows:

1) Themselves
2) Their partners and other officers
3) The elite who sign their paychecks

Pretty impressive given that the OED wasn't even started until the 1850s, nor published until 1884.

is rael

I see what jew did there.

You're correct. They are examples of 18th Century usage in the Oxford dictionary.