Star Trek Discovery. [SPOILERS WITHIN]

I have more than one gripe and the filler episode is the least of them.

The only satisfaction left in this show is watching it DIE.

To be fair Discovery is "Star Trek: Burnham" in all but name, so doing an entire episode about how far Michael (and to a lesser extent Stamets) has come since the series began is pretty on-brand.


Still it's hilarious and ballsy for the writers to suggest that Rayner is an asshole for not wanting to get to know the bridge crew and limiting them to 20 words each, since that's exactly how most of them were written the whole series.

While I assume that the Federation of the 32nd century is still the same idealistic, moneyless utopia of Trek from pre-Discovery, it's certainly possible that it no longer has the same resources that it once did, or at least that there is something that the non-Federation worlds could offer that the Federation might not be able to.

And yeah, the decision to not shoot the beasts seems a super-arbitrary dividing line of worth. There presumably are going to be people who do shoot even though they are otherwise moral people because the beasties do pose what seem to be a lethal threat, and only use a stun setting. There are people who won't shoot because they don't have an opportunity to, or because they are pacifists, or any number of other reasons. What does that have to do with whether given the Progenitor tech they would use it wisely and fairly?

I like that Burnham asked Rayner if he thought the crew lacked discipline. I yelled at my tv at that moment, "yes!"

What makes you say that her crew lacks discipline?

Have you ever been in the military? Or Americorps or some other organization that required “discipline”?

Compare it to any other Star Trek show other than maybe Lower Decks or SNW, they act like they're in high school together.

Yes.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Give examples of what this acting like they are in high school together and how it shows a lack of discipline.

There's definitely a friendly/family feeling among this crew that's present in every crew since (and to a certain extent even including) TOS.

This doesn't mean that there's not a chain of command, or that anybody attempts to or succeeds in getting away with any regulation violations.

Yea? Which one? And what about the crew’s actions do you think lack’s discipline?

Picard’s crew was also accused of being too familiar.

And having been in the military, I can tell you, familiarity does not equal lack of discipline. In fact, the army encourages it.

It's hard to explain it, but I know it when I see it. They all act informal. Obviously I'm not the only one who sees this because the writers seem to be responding to fans concerns with the last two episodes. Rayner pointing out to Tilly that he did not give her permission to speak. So they address it in the episode. There's a few instances in TOS for example where Kirk even has to remind Spock that he's the captain and he's the one that has to make a decision. Sisko does this too. In this show, like I said, they act as if they're in high school.

Yes, Jellico seemed like an asshole when I was a kid, but now I like him and think he was right.

The Boy Scouts and every job I've ever had.

this is what I'm liking about office/social work, it's as rowdy and non complying with the code of conduct as any construction site. We get shit done, but we make sure to laugh while doing it.

It shouldn't be hard for you to explain if you know it when you see it. You've seen every episode of Discovery, I take it, so you should be able to articulate that here are five (or however many) times when it was clear that the Discovery crew didn't follow orders or were too familiar with each other.

So far you've come up with one example where Tilly presumed she would receive permission to speak freely and spoke freely without waiting for it.

That's scarcely something worth attributing to the whole crew as to not following orders in general. But even spotting you that one, it's nothing out of the ordinary compared to most of Trek either in terms of following orders or overfamiliarity.

In TOS, Bones was always insubordinate to Spock despite his higher rank. In the Galileo Seven, the crew practically mutinied against him. People used racial slurs against Spock on the regular.

In TNG, Riker repeatedly disobeyed orders in Chain of Command and The Outcast. Barclay was shown to have repeatedly been a fuckup. Worf was repeatedly insubordinate, most notably when Data was acting as captain in Gambit.

Other than Burnham, the rest of the crew has been pretty much following orders straight down the line. They aren't very rank-conscious, but really all of the crews act more like family than a military organization. Even TOS at the end of the day.

Sure. I do the same thing at my work, but there is a command structure. All I’m saying is that DSC seems like it’s more loosely goosey with that structure. Is it okay to have a different opinion about modern Trek or do I have to agree that Burnham Trek is the best? Note that I have said positive things about this season so far and didn’t bring up any YouTubers.
I also want to note that I’m comparing this to past Trek and not real life.

Another thing is Adria’s dialogue, she sounds like a modern day Tilk Tok teenager and not someone with several hundred years of Trill experience. The dialogue is clunky compared to TOS-ENT.

I agree somewhat about Adria’s character. Not sure where they’re going to go with her character, but the actor has so far outgrown her counterpart (Gray), that they had to break up the two.

But, discipline does not mean, lack of familiarity. And I disagree that they behave more like high school students. They know their job, they don’t need micro managing. And Burnham doesn’t feel the need to shout out orders to prove to everyone her importance.

if your opinion was based on anything other than your oft stated belief that Burnham/DSC is the worst, maybe... I'd suspect that's a lot of the "loosey goosey" command structure you're "seeing" when compared to other crews. Quite the contrary, they're likely one of the more professional bridge crews ever shown in comparison to VGR or even TNG.

And you've gotta be kidding me about the "clunky" dialogue or Adira (I'm waiting for when they tell somebody that what's happening on screen is "lit, fam") for that matter compared to past shows.

It's worth pointing out that in that scene, Tilly isn't part of Discovery's normal chain of command anymore. She's an Academy instructor temporarily assisting Discovery with it's Red Directive mission, and on that particular day she's been asked by Discovery's captain (and Rayner's commanding officer) to assist him in completing the very first task she assigned him, which he's refusing to do.

Tilly isn't there as Rayner's subordinate, she's there as his babysitter and informal evaluator. Her talking back to him without permission makes perfect sense in that context.

I would let Tilly say anything she wanted whenever she wanted. I love Tilly so much.

She's more annoying than Wesley Crusher and Raffi.

I think I stopped watching this after the huge galactic dark age was revealed to have been caused by a child's tantrum. And the Federation was three guys in a room. How many series ago was that?

Season 3 was the burn.

The show still feels that way though. Like, the Federation is a dumb looking space station floating in open space. Every now and then a starship with magic matter flies around and does impossible Fast and the Furious stuff. Like literally in the season premier, Discovery purposely crashed itself head first into a planet to extend its shield around a town then just flew away afterwards.

Well, when TNG was on the air, I was the same age as Wesley Crusher, and had a crush on him, soooo... yeah.
Also, I like Tilly because she's clearly ADHD like me.

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