star trek:into darkness (WARNING: SPOILERS as of 4/23/13)

It won't kill you to obey the rules.

Last I checked, telling the truth is not against board rules. But I'm glad you admit that you have deficiencies.

Settling in to enjoy two hours of JJTrek '09.

In Rick's defense, I got the sense that he was talking in general terms, not specifically about those who liked nuTrek.

I think because Captain X and Dayton are so goddamn fuckwitted on this issue that everyone who disliked the movie, or weren't entirely wowed by it, are getting lumped into mindless Abrams bashers--and needlessly so.

I wasn't really talking about Rick. I agree, it's just a small number of drooling idiots.

I appreciate Rick's criticisms of the movie way more than Derpton3 or CaptainHurr because Rick has actually watched the movie.

He's been doing it the whole thread. Turkey's normally a very good poster so I'm baffled why he's taking this thread so seriously and resorting to personal attacks if anyone dares say something contrary to Abrams-love. He'll claim otherwise but his posts speak for themselves.

That's bullshit. In this thread I have done nothing but raise issue with the plot of the new movies. In Response you and the others have resorted to treating me like another Dayton or Captain X. If anything it is you lot who are playing a "stupid if you don't like it" game.

There are people who have raised issue with this product one way or another without resorting to personal attacks, just as there are those who fancy the film and have equally kept their comments to expressing an interest. On the other hand you, spaceturkey and several others have been resorting to the vey tactic you now criticise. You have been readily pursuing an agenda of superiority over anyone who posts a criticism of the product, mocking people as moaning stiff nerds with Captain X level butthurt.

Go back and read the thread. It's all there in black and white. Res ipsa loquitur.

Actually this serves perfectly to illustrate the level of fanboy I'm talking about when it comes to these movies. Here you even have people who liked the first movie, and since they have the gall to say they didn't like absolutely everything about the new one, and suddenly they're "haters". It's too bad you don't seem to see that, but thanks for the insult, I'll be sure to remember that for later.

So I've finally seen it. In general terms, it's a nice action movie, but that isn't what I'm looking for primarily in Star Trek. It feels as if there was a lot more time, effort, acting and detail spent on characterisation and dialogue in Iron Man 3 than on STID, and that's not womething I would have guessed five years ago.

Some of this is quite good, Cumberbatch and Quinto especially, and Kirk, while very different from the old Kirk, is interesting in his own right. Uhura is a definite improvement, although we need her to do something more that is not connected to her lovelife soon. But I found myself constantly wishing that all the explosions would get out of the way so I'd get a chance to watch these characters in greater detail.

There was one point where this movie lost me, and it never quite got me back:

The turnaround on WOK-scenes was nice in some ways, a bit heavy-handed with too little poignancy in others. And cheerleader blood is still lame, and I still say it undercuts what should have been Kirk's pivotal plot point.

In the end, we have Kirk saying that what their lives should be about is exploring strange new worlds and boldly going where no-one has gone before, and a kind of promise that this is what they will do now. I'm not sure what to make of that; I fully agree, but if that is true, why did they tell us this story instead? And why didn't they find anything strange and new to explore about Khan and the Klingons and indeed the Niburu?

One fanboish nitpick I can't resist -- reference to a major spoiler here:

You are misstating the situation in order to frame your complaint.

NO ONE is DEFENDING the JJ movies, they are DISPUTING the LEGITIMACY of the various gripes about it.

This is not a discussion of "is NuTrek a great movie or is it not?"

Rather, it's a discussion of whether or not the given post criticizing it contains a logical, valid, line of reasoning.

Heck, most of the criticisms on point have been AGREED with by those you claim are defending NuTrek. (for instance, the too-big brewery engineering, the unnecessary slapstick, the ridiculous promotion, etc)

No. It's only when the "old school" crowd says things which, in effect if not overtly, say "NuTrek shames the memory of the greatness that was Classic Trek!!!" that those you call "defenders" begin to point out that the "greatness" is, in fact, often just as tarnished as anything in the NuTrek experience.

IN THAT CONTEXT - a criticism of the pseudoscience of protomatter to illustrate that objections to red matter are overstated are perfectly logical.

Specifically, that's not a defense of red matter, it's a disputation of the implication that GOOD Trek never resorted to such devices. And parallel to that, if it did, then why are you only so bitchy NOW?

Also,

1. STWOK
2. STTUC
3. STTSFS
4. STTVH
5. STFC
6. STTFF
7. JJ-1
8. STG
9. STTMP
10. JJ-2
11. STI
12. STN

"Captain. Not in front of the Klingons."

The character interactions, even the cheesy ones, are done with love. For me that is enough to put TFF above the aborted turd that is Nemesis.

Nope, don't agree. People may have at first lumped you with CaptainS, but that stopped pretty quickly. And as I already said in response to Anna, it's just a few drooling idiots, not everybody who doesn't like the movie. For all I know, I won't like the movie. But I doubt I will conclude that it isn't Star Trek.

Isn't that what I just said?

Anyway, I think both sides have taken this issue way too seriously. It's a damn movie. None of the Enterprise shippers died when both those pairing fell through, and no one will die if this movie is shit or not shit.

There's a showing on a nearby base tonight, I plan on catching it.

Except for the little fact of you a) didn't like the first movie and have never ceased to tell us so. You've also decided to not like the new one.
and b) anyone who had the gall to like the first one and explain why you've dismissed as "fanboys" or otherwise simpletons.

The response has been that they're not only just movies, but that they're just star trek movies. They aren't going to be deep social commentaries or literary homages, no matter what some pretentious fools have tried to delude themselves into believing over the years.

I liked reading & appreciate the reviews of STiD by all the WordForgers who have now actually seen it, such as Bailey and RickDeckard.

What, that my point has been made, so calling me names over it is hardly warranted? No, not really.

I've never been in danger of taking Abrams Trek seriously.

I only call people fanboys if they persist in defending something they like with insults rather than anything of substance, irrationally to the point of absurdity. My point is effectively underlined by the treatment of El Chup and RickDeckard.

Yup, just movies. Just bad, dumbed down dumb action movies.

Okay, having now seen it I have to say I'm pretty impressed. Up until Spock deals with Khan's betrayal it is, by far, the best "action" Trek movie. The TWoK mirror and Cheerleader Blood massively lets it down, although the TWoK mirror has the bonus of self-awareness about it.

It's not especially shallow - both Kirk and Spock significantly develop their characters in this, with Kirk realising he's cocky and confident, not cocksure and competent, and Spock realising that there is a bond between him and Kirk and that he needs to allow for his human side.

Nothing that Trek hasn't visited before, but this is a reboot and we are effectively seeing the Kirk/Spock relationship before S1 of TOS.

Cumberbatch owns the Khan character, and seeing him truly unleashed makes him a villain TOS/TWoK were unable to at the time.

Yes, there are flaws - Packard notes Scotty is cold about killing the security guard and there is no regard to the number of deaths when Khan decides to go out with a bang. With the former, Scotty has little option - two lives depend on him directly, and hundreds more indirectly. Pegg's "sorry" carries an awful lot of remorse in it.

As for the death count, I agree more could've been made of it in the final scenes, but it's a movie.

The TWoK mirror... It's nicely done, and YMMV, but it took me "out" of the movie. Hearing Pegg speaks Doohan's exact words to Spock instead of Kirk was something uncomfortable - the TWoK death scene is highly charged and I really don't think needed revisiting. From a storytellers perspective it's cleverly done, even down to Kirk/Spock saying they did what the other would've done, but from a Trekkers perspective there are some hallowed grounds you just don't tread on.

After that, Spock's chase of Khan was good, and just as it was good to see Khan unleashed, so it was seeing Spock tap into that Vulcan fury. The chase itself seemed unnecessary - too much icing on the cake.

As for Khan's 'punishment', it made sense - no prison could contain him, so re-freezing him until Earth could adequately deal with the criminals of it's history made sense plus opened up revisiting Khan.

There are also some things to note - primarily that in this verse Praxis has already gone boom...

And the Ketha Province is uninhabited, which affects any future Martok.

And with the Klingons, yes they were pretty one dimensional in this - but since they were facing the Klingon version of Mall Cops I can't imagine we were seeing the cream of the IDF.

I've changed my mind. I'm not going to see it until I can see it cheaply. Plus my wife wants to go with me and I don't want to take her to a movie where even I'm cringing.

Plus, inadequate space battles according to one of the above comments. And I can probably see them on YouTube soon enough.

No matter. I didn't see The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, and The Final Frontier in theatres either and I didn't miss much.

More spoiler reviews from TKers who've also actually seen STiD:

http://www.trollkingdom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137404&page=12post=#574

http://www.trollkingdom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137404&page=12post=#577

And the rest of the thread from post #577 on.


STiD comes ashore here in North America in a few days.

Why does the US have to wait longer for this than anyone else?

Abrams & Co. wanted to premiere & release STiD internationally before premiering & releasing it domestically here in the U.S., & the rest of North America.

Yeah, but fuckin' why?

I don't know. Maybe to boo$t STiD's global profit$?

Been offered the chance to see the movie for free this Thursday at the Waterloo IMAX. Still not sure if I want to go though. Still not liking what I'm hearing. Pegg using the same lines as Doohan at the end? Ugh. Fuck that shit.

Not going unless I get free beer.

Beer! They should give you free Romulan Ale