Star Trek Returns to TV

I think they should troll the fans and have the Captain be a grey haired T'Pol.

I've posted more than once the Star Trek episodes, movies, and books I've liked.

IIRC I've liked something like 80-100 Star Trek episodes from all the series combined.

Someone should photoshop her in a post TUC uniform.

Irrelevant since I'm quite sure that those 80-100 episodes have women. Women have been integral to Star Trek from the Cage onwards not as pretty objects, but as vital, responsible, talented people. How can you like Star Trek at all with that being a core component of it 's message and it's stories?

Dayton has not and will never understand Star Trek. In fact he dismisses Gene's views and the spirit of TOS as being irrelevant.

So, a military unit dedicated to exploration wouldn't have combat as its primary assignment, thus, by your logic, should be perfectly acceptable to have female crew members.

Why are we bothering to dress this up? Dayton likes the little woman to be in the kitchen. Not doing a tough man's work. No more, no less. Quite simply he hates the idea that as a straight white man his free ticket to a position of dominance in society is under threat, and this is simply reflected in his views on Star Trek and many other things.

He doesn't see the irony of someone being too chicken shit to service in combat himself deciding for others whether or not they should choose to be on the frontline.

Not what I said.

Gene's views were to make money. The fact that he tried to graft some deep meaning onto Star Trek to make him seem less like a greedy and horny old buzzard doesn't change that.

Nobody is claiming that Gene wasn't in it to make money. But you routinely make that excuse, along with the excuse of his personal life, to somehow prove that negates his view of a positive, inclusive future and the fact that he provided the foundation that the rest of TOS's (and later Trek's) writers and producers built on. Christ, one only has to watch The Cage to see how he viewed woman in the context of the show.

Of course Gene wanted to make money. But that he chose to make his money by creating a television show that pictured a future for humanity that was better then what we were experiencing, that showed us growing past out fear and prejudice is significant.
In the 60's Gene could have made just as much money and with a lot less grief if he had just kept making shows like The Lieutenant. He had a vision he wanted to share, and medium to do it in, and the opportunity to do so while being able to support himself and his family. How you can ignore that is a complete mystery.

Out of curiousity which of the TOS episodes do the two of you think best reflects "Gene's vision"?

Given that we are talking about women being in space and crew diversity in a 1960s American network show, I'd say episodes 1-79.

In other words you have nothing.

Off the top of my head, The Cage which showed a Female First Officer, called the Hell that the Talosians put Pike in a fairy tale from his childhood, and discussed the narcotic of constant entertainment.
Balance of Terror which discussed bigotry and hatred, how even an enemy can have character, and the price of command.
Or Let That Be Your Last Battlefield that showed unchecked racism brought to a horrifying conclusion.

Your objection to female cast members is that you don't think women should be in combat, is it not? Is not the mission of crews in Star Trek primarily to "seek out new life and new civilizations"? How is that a combat role?

And it's a weird point of view since women have been fighting in wars since before Gilgamesh.

What do you mean I have nothing? You utter bloody fool.

We don't even need to get down to the individual plots of episodes. You have a mixed race immigrant, an Asian officer, a Russian Officer and a black female officer on the bridge in some combination or other in every single episode. Hell, in the two pilots you have even more female officers, one of whom was the First Officer! Gene's view of a "Starship Earth" was in every damned episode.

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is widely considered a joke by critics and fans a like.

Balance of Terror also has Kirk telling Angela the fiancee of Specialist Tomlinson that "there was a reason" pretty unapologetically.

And the Romulan Commander justifies his decision to commit suicide at the end as being "one last duty to perform".

Whether combat is the primary mission of the Enterprise or not, the fact is that even in modern Star Trek, the crews still often find themselves in combat.

IIRC in DS9s "Rules of Engagement" O'Brien testifies at Worf's hearing that he as been in combat "more than 200 times (note, this was BEFORE the Dominion War).

More than 200 times in combat is probably more than a modern U.S. Marine serving several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

No you don't.

Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov are not in every episode. Besides which Sulu was later mentioned in The Voyage Home as being from San Francisco.

Find another hill to die on El Chup.

To your first "point" what critics? I have a bunch of critics who believe that it was an incredibly thought provoking episode. As for the fan, if you mean ironic hipsters who talk about squeeing over the 'cheesy sets' so what?
To your second and third "point's" well, i have no idea what the hell you're on about with those.
And finally, Oy Vey!

One of them was, and Spock certainly was.

And this somehow stops him being an Asian?

Why are you wishing death on me?

"find another hill to die on" is an expression meant to suggest that you are taking an indefensible or difficult to defend position. If this isn't one used across the pond (Atlantic Ocean) then I apologize.

I've always thought that people born in San Francisco were Americans.

The problem is, however, that rules and regulations are going to be determined by what a ship's primary mission is. Not hypotheticals as to what might happen. After all, the Federation knows that there are beings with god-like abilities out there who could easily destroy the entire Federation with a wave of their hand. Yet, instead of hunkering down on their home planets and not exploring the galaxy, they "boldly go," while knowing that they do not have the means to defend themselves against such beings.

Additionally, the women serving on the ships in Star Trek want to be there, and saying "No, you can't go because its dangerous and you have a vagina" isn't a valid reason to prohibit them from serving. If you believe that all people are equal, then you cannot, in good conscience, deny them that choice.

Dayton doesn't think people are equal though.

American humans. then non-American humans, then non-humans. Non-humans are ranked according to their usefulness. Non-christian, non-human, non-Federation, third gendered are the lowest.

Seeing as how Starfleet women signed up for potential and even likely combat, is it a stretch to say that they're more courageous than Dayton is?

A lemming is more courageous than Dayton.

For those who think a modern successful television series has to have female characters, note the first two years of Law & Order did not have any women in the main cast.