"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Steal Your Face, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Breaking: Dayton Kitchens reportedly hospitalized due to extreme protein loss and dehydration.
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  2. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    6a4u12.jpg
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  3. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    Fuck the White House staffers and fart-sniffers for trying to walk back the President's remarks.

    Biden is 100% correct. Putin is a threat to global peace and cannot remain in power.
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  4. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Perpetually sondering

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    Well, sure, but you can't commit to that out loud or you'll limit your own tactics and strategy as well as Putin's.

    A lot of not-going-to-war consists of pretending that X and Y will happily settle for less than seeing each other eviscerated.
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  5. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    It's not often you see pics of the officer carrying the "Football."
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  6. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  7. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Stay at Home Astronaut. Administrator Overlord

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    We call them "Cope Cages".
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  8. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Stay at Home Astronaut. Administrator Overlord

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    Russians are fucking barbarian criminals.
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  9. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Tandem warheads like Javelin has were designed to defeat ERA, so it's no surprise that slat armor does nothing.

    It's reminiscent of T-34s in Berlin with bedsprings welded to their turrets to try to defend against panzerfausts.
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  10. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  11. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Legit Slat Armor (which this definitely is not) can be effective against RPG-7s but yeah, good luck against a Javelin or AT-4. :lol:
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  12. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  13. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg Stay at Home Astronaut. Administrator Overlord

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    I'm actually curious to know, would 105mm armed vehicles like the Leopard 1A5, or the M60A3 have much success against T-72B's, or T-80's? I saw a BTR-4 kill a T-72B Obr 2016 with a shit ton of flank shots with it's 30mm Autocannon.
  14. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Flank and rear shots shouldn't be a problem for 105mm. The hull sides are 60-80mm at most.

    M900-series sabot would have a decent shot at defeating Russian frontal armor as well.


    In 2003 there was at least one knife fight engagement between Bradleys and Iraqi T-72s where the IFVs were too close to use TOWs so they mobility-killed the tanks by firing 25mm DU rounds into the rear hulls, disabling the engines. The Iraqis bailed out and were killed or captured.
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  15. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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  16. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Demanding regime change significantly narrows the potential of a negotiated peace. That was not a good move, and highlights the possibility that Ukraine is being used as a pawn in a geopolitical game.
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  17. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    Okay, Chamberlain.
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  18. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    You understand that the US will not be in any peace conference, as it's not a party to the conflict, right?
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  19. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I don't know enough about PR and public opinion to know if coming out and saying that was the right move, but they will definitely be playing that clip inside Russia as an example of the US is threatened by and wants to interfere with Russia.

    For many in Russia (and also China) they literally see Europe as being under US influence in the same way that Russia wants to have it's own sphere of influence in Western Europe. What the US says can be spun to be the motivation for any unified European actions, and also to those who think Zelenskyy is a puppet of NATO it can make Ukraine's fight against Russia be reframed as Russia the evil West.
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  20. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    They're doing that anyway. :shrug:
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  21. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Well yeah, hence the first part of my post.

    The point was that whether or not the US is officially part of any peace conference is irrelevant as they will be perceived to.
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  22. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    While I agree it wasn't the correct diplomatic move, Russia is already lying about all of those things independently of anything Biden said. He had a moment of honesty in his disgust for Putin. At the end of the day it's only going to matter to people who already were on that side.

    The US doesn't control NATO, and Russia's attack on Ukraine was never about NATO. It was about empire building, resources, and securing the Crimean ports.
  23. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    And that's irrelevant to the truth or any comment Biden makes.
  24. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Saying it and then going "oh, noooo, he didn't mean that..." seems like it might be a good way to communicate to Putin just how badly he's fucked up ...
  25. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

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    Aren’t sanctions themselves advocating for regime change?
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  26. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Not necessarily - you could make a strong argument that it's advocating for behaviorial change.

    But yeah, at this point most people agree the world would be a better place without Putin.

    Unfortunately it's not likely to happen. Instead we will see Russia go the way of North Korea.
  27. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    Yes, there's no precedent for regime change in Russia.
  28. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Two things both Gorbachev and Tsar Nicholas had in common. They both were reformers who got caught up by revolutions that wanted reform faster than they were willing to allow. That's definitely not Putin.

    I think if you look at the broader Russian history you'll find most of the dictators and authoritarians were successful in keeping the populace down.

    I hope I'm wrong, but most analysts I've read think that there isn't going to be a successful revolution.
  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Long read but insightful.

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  30. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Indeed but they clearly wield a lot of influence over what the Ukrainians can offer, and what they can accept. Most obviously in relation to the unwinding of sanctions, but also in relation to NATO, military assistance to Ukraine and so forth.