The irrational fears of Americans of "Socialism"

Yep, you sure are.

^

Brilliant - do it again!

Well, looks like you've found your metier...

You've certainly found yours.

Crony capitalism, maybe. Not free-market capitalism.

The way things are in America (especially if the job is a union job), once somebody is hired, it can difficult to outright impossible to fire them. It took the Target store I used to work at a whole year to can this one bitch that called out for half her shifts. So because of people like her, who make extra work for everyone else, employers don't give the benefit of the doubt anymore.

The group that's gotten hit hardest in the recession have been teens for this very reason, and from the ones I worked with, I can't say I blame the employers.

While there are people that are out of work for good reasons,such as school or raising a young family, or things beyond their control such as illness, people with lots of gaps in their work history usually have a reason for it...and it's usually not illness related.

Since Skin has more than a passing familiarity with Hellenistic philosophy, Skin can say this with confidence:

Diacanu is not a Cynic. Diacanu is, instead, a misanthrope due to being an adult dependent. His misanthropy is therefore directed primarily at the popular and the successful, people who have achieved with their lives things which he has not.

Of course, if Skin were to advise Diacanu on a Hellenistic philosophy worth studying, Skin would advise Stoicism, which is a philosophy from which the observable positive things of Socialism can arise without instilling in its beneficiaries the crippling sense of entitlement that drags down and destroys most sincere efforts to help those in need.

Thank you.

Ah, free-market capitalism. Embraced with a kind of religious fervor, even though its adherents will admit it has never actually existed, all the fault of Big Bad Gubmint, of course.

Muad: I agree with you that a society has to be tough towards people who try to profit from our welfare systems without trying to better themselves and become independent. Tough love ftw! That's why I posrepped your post above. There will always be people who try to profit from welfare without deserving it. That's the nature of the game. There will always be leeches, and every welfare system will seduce some people to abuse it.

However: There are many, many people who just don't fit in, and it's not their fault. Where you see leeches, I see many people who just don't find a way to become a part of the system. This has often to to with mental problems which are not so easy to diagnose. My opinion is that we should try to integrate these people, even if it's expensive and not profitable at all.

A society is only strong when it is able to integrate the "weak", too. And a society is only civilized when it finds a way to deal with its "weak" members. I even go so far and say that one can measure the grade of the civilisation of a culture by looking at how it deals with the weak and the poor and those who fail in life, even if it's their own mistake.

I know you disagree and we will never find a consensus, but it has been a pleasure discussing with you.

For those who are really, genuinely disabled, mentally or physically, we are in agreement. Those people are truly unable to help themselves and a compassionate society should help them.

For those who refuse to help themselves, and there is a difference, we owe nothing. The sad fact is that a majority of our welfare recipients fall into that category.

Fine. If that's what *YOU* want to do, then *YOU* pay for it. *I* don't want to do it and I resent anyone using the government to steal my labor to finance *THEIR* desires.

Says who?

That's *YOUR* definition of decent. Don't speak as if it were some absolute.

Human beings are smart: they will do what is in their own interests. If they have to work to survive, they will work. If not, well...

What now? Socialism is pretty low on the list of things Americans fear. In fact I don't anyone who is afraid of socialism.

And suggesting socialism is symptom of a "mature" society is silly.

Required by whom?

What the hell?!


"Yeah, fucking white people ruin everything! Bet they believe in God too!"

I don't share your belief that there is a deep rooted fear of socialism.

Ban televisions!

Name the folks who irrationally fear socialism.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. How can you possibly know that "a majority" refuse to help themselves?

I have had growing fears about creeping socialism/communism/fascism/whatthefuckeverism for a number of years. I've seen signs of it in the New Deal and the Great Society. IMHO the country has been leaning in these directions ever since Lincoln. Progressivism seemed to florish through the 20th century.

I agree that suggesting socialism is symptom of a "mature" society is silly. If anything, it is a sign of a weak society. A strong, mature society has no need of socialsim.

To be fair: even the most capitalist countries don't work that way. You don't get to decide on a case-by-case basis what your tax dollars are being spent on. Whether it's defense, subsidies, social services or whatever. It's a majority decision of representatives legitimized by elections, and not an individual decision of every tax payer. So it's not an absolute, but a consensus achieved through the political system.

The taxpayers do have a reasonable expectation that their tax dollars will be spent wisely.

Defense certainly is a responsibilty of our government. We want our monies spent on good equipment and facilities for that function. What we object to is the $800 toilet seat on an aircraft or a $500 hammer.

Our current state of welfare is the $800 toilet seat of social programs.

You start with a wrong premise. Socialism is not compatible with capitalism. It's exactly the opposite.

What you mean is welfare, which is something every country implements in one form or another.

Socialism is what fucktards like DIE LINKE have wet dreams about. It's the abolition of private property. It's the abolition of economic freedom, which implies the abolition of personal freedom (you can't have one without the other). It's the creation of a command economy (you can't have a free market without economic freedom).

A sane person can be supportive of social services and welfare, but no sane person could ever be supportive of socialism.

And: there is no middle ground. You can't have "moderate" socialism. The moment you start to question the very principles of capitalism (private property, economic and personal freedom, a free market) you have lost all those principles. Socialism is a crime in itself.

Warned ya, didn't I?

Yes, I agree. My point was that spending tax dollars is not, and never was, an individual decision. So the "you want it, you pay for it" argument doesn't necessarily apply to taxes, because spending taxes is a government function and not a function of individuals.

Well, there you go.
The latter is what Beck and the teabaggers shake their fists at.

Skin doesn't share the belief that it's a fear, nor that it's irrational. It's a very rational antipathy.

It's a popularity contest: two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

That's why DEMOCRACY is NOT an ideal. Yes, there must be democratic elements to government for it to have any hope of legitimacy. But unless the government guarantees some things are safe from being seized by the majority, democracy is worthless.

Once the state is allowed to seize a portion of my income--no matter how small a portion it takes--it has an implicit right to seize ALL of it. I no longer own my own labor: government has a prior claim on it without my consent. To the extent that this condition exists, I AM A SLAVE.

I realize that western democracies operate through consensus, that taxation of some kind is inevitable, and that it's impractical at present for us to individually pick and choose which programs we want to support. But wealth redistribution is unfair and should be abolished. If the government takes my neighbor's side against me in order to take my money and give it to my neighbor, I have little reason to support the government.

Ha ha, no.

See post 116.