Voyager should have been the best Trek series EVAR.

Well, I'd always heard it was more Jeri Taylor's baby, and he usurped it.

I always thought (and still do) that having a female captain was a major mistake.

I believe that it made the character of the captain fundamentally more difficult to write for.

And the Voyager writers had problems writing even in the best of times.

I believe the hideous way the character of Janeway was mangled by the writers proves this.

I'm not sure Kate Mulgrew, or the way Janeway was written for that matter, were necessarily the best choices, but I don't think that makes the idea of a female captain unworkable.

People fucked up Archer. He's no woman. He's no captain, not really. He's an idiot. Bad writers. Not bad gender.

So you want Team America... in Space!

Which would have been a lot better, but for different reasons.

"Voyager Fuck Yeah!
Coming again to save the motherfuckin' day yeah!
Voyager Fuck Yeah!
Aliens your day is through because now you have to answer to,
Voyager Fuck Yeah!"

Oh God! You guys are tempting me to actually download some Voyager episodes!

As for the insinuation that a female can't be a good captain, I really like the way they've written Roslin on BSG. Not a captain of course, but still, a very strong women who doesn't need to act like a man to command.

Hmm, that may have been the problem...they wrote Capt. Janaway like a man!

So if they beboot Star Trek, are all of your DS9 DVDs going to vanish into thin air?

Last I heard, DS9 was already in the history books, TV wise. Unless there's something you know that I don't.

Didn't you hear? When they brought back BSG, Ron Moore went to every house and smashed all evidence that the original existed. At least that is what I heard from that guy who hates the new show and posts on a message board by himself.


Yeah this isn't like time travel. If they reboot the series, the other series will still exist. It just won't be a part of continuity of the new series. Just repeat to yourself it is just a show, I really should relax. It is all made up anyways.

Noteable exception being Piller, who has stated that he wanted to keep the Maquis/Starfleet conflict going.

But that also says a lot, because I think that reflects the lack of insightfulness of the typical Voyager teammember to actively want to abandon a fantastic device (the original premise) for telling great drama.

Probably explains why, again, Piller left the show following the second year.

Okay, seriously, WTF with number ten? God..that was the most depressing episode of Star Trek ever. And needlessly so, since I doubt Voyager needed a sequel to that rediculous "Demon."

But other than that, I'd add "Death Wish" to the list and...

Let's remember that Mulgrew was pretty much a last-minute replacement for Genevieve Bujold.

I don't see a problem with a female captain. That was not Voyager's problem...the problem, same as Enterprise, was pussified writing, and Berman being the rotten fish behind THAT.

There's any number of ways Voyager and Enterprise could've gone that would have made them awesome as opposed to mediocre...had they producers with both mad writing skillz and some balls.

Yeah, because the Borg enjoy working with the Kazon and stuff....

Actually, it's stated in one ep that the Borg don't even consider the Kazon worthy of assimilation... LOL.

But the point is valid - there were some pretty advanced races in the Delta Quadrant. The Krenim, the Vidiians, the Think Tank, and of course the Borg.

Best thing about Voyager was they came up with some really intriguing bad guys, even if they didn't use them that well.

That seemed obvious.

The original BSG lasted for one season. (If you dont count BSG 80).

So do I. As a Klingon once said "Do what you want with the body. It's just an empty shell".

Psst...see Serenity on how the Reynolds Manuever is supposed to work...no cooperation with the Borg required.

Pssst... the Borg aren't the Reavers, just a tad bit more advanced.

And the Kazon are sure as hell not Mal Reynolds!

I can see it now:

Kazon First Officer: Um, sir, I know we are wanna be klingons with a highly developed since of warrior ethos and no common sense at all, but are you sure you don't want to reconsider this action?
Kazon Captain: No, you coward. Do a flyby on the lead Borg ship. They will follow us as a hound follows a fox.
Kazon First Officer: Yes sir. *fiddles with some controls* Flying by now... *ship shudders*
Kazon Captain: What was that? Report!
Kazon First Officer: We aren't moving sir.
Kazon Captain: Full power!
Kazon First Officer: No use sir. Sir, we are being drug back into the Borg cube. There appears to be some kind of energy beam locked on to us. It is a technology we do not have. I believe they call it a 'tractor beam.'
Kazon Captain: We should kill ourselves rather than be assimilated. *takes blade, plunges it into heart*
BORG: RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. WE SHALL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR.... OH. YOU ARE KAZON. YOU ARE IRRELEVANT. *tractor beam ceases*
Former Kazon First Officer, now Captain: Helm, get us the hell out of here.

The Next Day
Janeway: Anything to report?
Chakotay: Just cataloging some gaseous anomalies. Quiet day.
Janeway: Excellent. I'll have my coffee in the officer's lounge.

I've decided Voyager was just dramatizations of Janeway's log entries, and since she was obviously bugfuck crazy from the git-go, none of it can be taken literally.

As for female captains, I never have and never will have any trouble whatsoever with the concept. My supervisor and her boss are women, I count both as friends and good bosses.

It's just that Janeway was written very, very badly. By men. By men with the emotional maturity if 13-year-olds, whose idea of a real woman was apparently an unattainable ice queen with giant tits and big puffy lips wearing a catsuit who stood around voguing like she was posing for FHM and saying shit like "Oh, you wish to procreate?". So how in the hell could they possibly write a realistic, emotionally mature woman in a position of responsibility?

Jeri Taylor was a man?

I think the "Ship of Death" reputation of Voyager in the DQ pretty much covered that,

http://memory-alpha.org/es/images/thumb/5/56/Jeritaylor.jpg/200px-Jeritaylor.jpg

It was the most un-Star Trek episode of Star Trek, which made it really good.

O'RLY?

Wow, is *that* what BSG is, times three seasons? I'm glad I never bothered with that show, then.

The biggest problem about C:O was that is was just so....Oh, I dunno. Pointless. And a complete waste of time.

Jammer's reviews usually sum up how I feel on most of these episodes (His very generous review of Enterprise's "Harbinger" excluded ), and this case is no different:

http://www.jammersreviews.com/voy-5/oblivion.php

Well, Forbin said men didn't know how to write for women. Jeri Taylor wrote at least 15 episode of Voyager (including the pilot), and was the producer/consultant on tons more.

In fact, she left after season 4 or 5, which is when I'd say the show started experiencing a lot more downs than ups.

She also wrote two very good Voyager books, "Pathways" and "Mosaic" (the latter basically being Janeway's backstory).

^Ezzakly.

Dear God in Heaven, please move this thread to the Red Room!